Higher Level Hobgoblins


Advice


I want to play hobgoblins at a higher level. I am thinking that the leader would be a Sorcerer or Cleric at 10th level. His second in command would be a 6 Dice Advanced Large Bearded Devil that he summoned. The Bearded Devil would have 1 level of Barbarian and be a trainer and member of the Hobgoblin army. There might be a Barghest as well.

I am just wondering what other sort of characters and adventures and things I could do with hobgoblins? What do you think?

Liberty's Edge

First off, I think that of all of the classic humanoid foes in RPG lore, Hobgoblins have the most potential to become iconic villains. They need more love and with the proper approach, I think Hobgoblins can become THE villains of anybody's campaign.

Secondly, following on the first, I obviously think your idea is an excellent one.

Thirdly, for inspiration on higher level hobgoblins and what makes them tick, I would refer you to Classic Monster Revisited which has a whole section on Hobgoblins.

Classic Monsters Revisited & Hobgoblins

On the down side, this product in the Pathfinder Chronicles line was released early on as a 3.5 OGL product, before the switch over to Pathfinder RPG. As such, there is essentially no crunch in the product for Hobgoblins.

On the plus side, there is lots and lots of flavor and passages discussing the cultural of Hobgoblins, how they are raised, their military culture and upbringing and other peripheral matters which can be squeezed out when the text features feats and racial traits. So there is some good to go along with the bad here.

My guess is that when we see the Advanced Race Guide next spring, there will be more crunchy information on Hobgoblins in that book which, when combined with all of this information on Hobgoblins in Classic Monsters Revisited, will provide GMs with a surfeit of info on hobgoblins.

For now, consider the following:

  • Hobgoblins tend towards communal upbringing of all children in an egalitarian approach towards training. Only the best survive and there are few favors granted to the children of those with advanced standing in their society. This can make it difficult for dynasties to take root for very long among Hobgoblin society;

  • Hobgoblins are slavers. That's their primary motive for invasion and economic expansion. They are all about slaves and their culture, economies and social norms should reflect it at almost every instance. Generally, cultures founded upon slavery and expansion tend to be rigid and socially stratified within the culture as well. There can be a pecking order among the Hobgoblins that each of them will find hard it hard to escape. The only reason that does not completely paralyze Hobgoblin society is because of their egalitarian and merit based military training;

  • Hobgoblins will deploy specialist strike teams and use select individuals and squads for specific mission assignments. Examples given were for engineers and infiltrators - but this is not suggested to be an exhaustive list and Hobgoblins are as diverse as any humans in this regard. So assassins would seem a particularly suitable Hobgoblin strike team -- a Hobgoblin variant of ninjas is not much of a stretch, either. Wash, rinse, repeat as and where necessary to "reskin" a class or order within Hobgoblin society;

  • Something about Hobgoblin priests and a larger world view seems particularly insidious to me. Since Hobgoblin priests who are true believers nay necessarily have a different overlord than their King and their loyalties should reflect this. This makes a Hobgoblin priest of some obscure sect q very interesting candidate as a long-term recurring villain;

  • As a general observation, Hobgoblin sorcery is FAR more brutal and aimed towards killing than those of their greatest foes, the elves. Play up on that theme with NPC character builds;

  • Humans are longer lived than Hobgoblins. That applies to their human slaves as well (at least some of them). It may be that skilled slaves can act, oddly, as preservers of Hobgoblin culture and continuity more than the Hobgoblins themselves. Rare human slaves may even act as scribes and lorekeepers for the Hobgoblins in some areas. This might be an especially interesting theme to develop with a privileged human slave raised in captivity and developing a sort of Stockholm Syndrome relationship with his captors;

  • Hobgoblins: less Orc, more Uruk-Hai; less goblin, more Klingon. Roll with it;

  • The Hobgoblins' darkvision is not to be underestimated and should be exploited wherever possible. Darkness is the ambient default light while underground and explains why going into the Hobgoblins' realm is so dangerous for elves and humans to assault. Even above ground, a darkness spell at night can be overwhelmingly effective in giving the Hobgoblins a tactical edge. Strike teams built around magic items which create darkness and shadows are not only relatively cheap, they are brutally effective, too;

  • Combining the themes about Hobgoblins being slavers and their natural darkvision, those they enslave are usually unable to see in darkness. This means that the Hobgoblins' realm is actually well lit. Their slaves need to be able to see in order to serve their masters. But darkness also becomes a dangerous fence -- a barrier to prevent their slaves from escaping. The entrances/exits out of the underground Hobgoblin realm should be warded with permanent magical darkness areas and traps and dangers to slay and maim those who cannot see in the dark. In this manner, escape of slaves from their realm is essentially halted. Design your Hobgoblin realms with those choke-point features in mind. The dangers posed should be focused at stopping slaves from leaving as much as they are about preventing enemies from entering. Again, darkness is their chief ally and weapon against the weak-eyed surface dwellers;

  • Unlike the Drow, Hobgoblins are not vulnerable to sunlight and do not suffer any debilitating effects from operating in sunlight. This makes hobgoblins gravitate to the upper strata of the Darklands and to dwell on its surface at times as well. Hobgoblins are stronger and far more numerous than the Drow. The Drow may despise them and look down upon them -- but the Hobgoblins can be a threat to the Drow as well;

  • As foes, Hobgoblins reproduce much faster than their enemies and their training methods are harshly efficient. The reason Golarion is not overrun by Hobgoblins is not because Humans, Elves and Dwarves are stronger. Those species, in fact, are all weaker. The reason the surface of Golarion has not come to be dominated by Hobgoblins is because the Hobgoblin nations ultimately break down and fight with one another and lose their ability to cooperate together for military purposes, even within their "Lawful Evil" society. The so called "good races" and the humans do not suffer from this intrinsic weakness. It's the only reason we hang on against an unyielding foe which reproduces so fast; and

  • Carrying forward on that theme, it also seems logical that a legend/prophecy of a Hobgoblin King who would be able to unite the Hobgoblin nations would be a strong religious and cultural prophecy among their kind. A religious sect devoted to "finding" such a prophesied Hobgoblin warrior would be a powerful organizing purpose around which their sect would coalesce. Such a sect would also have powerful enemies withing the ruling order of the Hobgoblins in the area -- as well as the Elves of Golarion who would greatly fear such a prophecy coming to pass.


The Cleric would be for Bargrivek, and this would be a good thing too because they also have a bunch of prophecy themed stuff and they want to make sure Hobgoblins don't fight one another and fight outside forces.


SPCDRI wrote:
I want to play hobgoblins at a higher level...I am just wondering what other sort of characters and adventures and things I could do with hobgoblins?

I run a Hobgoblin empire in my world, they are are modeled on the Islamic ones of our world, particularly employing 'slave soldiers' such as Mamluks and Janissaries, with older, veteran Hobs acting as the civil service. Independent Hobgoblins are forced to join the near-Spartan boot camps, graduating to the military and serving until maimed, etc. In their worldview, everyone living in the land must serve the State. There are differing levels of citizenship with Hobgoblins at the top. Humans can rise in the society, but are always a step lower than a Hobgoblin of the same job.

A great source is Slave Soldiers and Islam by Daniel Pipes. Wind has a great post, love it.


The Hobgoblins in Kenzer and Co's world Kingdoms of Kalamar tend to be Monks and Fighters or Fighter/Monks. And they tend to be great warlords or mercenaries when they aren't part of the Hobgoblin Kingdoms. They also tend to be LN or LE.


Shizvestus wrote:
The Hobgoblins in Kenzer and Co's world Kingdoms of Kalamar tend to be Monks and Fighters or Fighter/Monks. And they tend to be great warlords or mercenaries when they aren't part of the Hobgoblin Kingdoms. They also tend to be LN or LE.

I want to run Hobgoblins, but without the slavery baggage. Would they be build kind of like kuo toa?

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