Much talk around the board on how awful the gunslinger and the holy gun are, so of course I start to think it is a great idea.
after a careful review of the firearms rules I am confused super confused.
here are my questions
1. how does a gunslinger take a full round attack with multiple bab
(it seems to me you need at least a move action to reload)
so if you only have one barrel or round how do you fire it more than once with out reloading? or how does reloading come into play? I know they have the rapid reload feat.
2. can a person take twf with gunslinger, OR do they always need the other hand to clear and reload ect..
3. has anybody who hates the holy gun actually played one?
4. walk me through a level2 gunslinger attacking in 4 rounds with a bullet blunderbiuss
5. can a person take mysterious stranger, and then take holy gun and then get the grit pool based off cha instead of wisdom? or can a normal holy gun eventually "combine" his grit pool after 12 level or does he have 2 grit pools?
6. why isnt the shotgun in UC way more deadly than 1d8? shouldn't it be 10d8 at close range?
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5. can a person take mysterious stranger, and then take holy gun and then get the grit pool based off cha instead of wisdom? or can a normal holy gun eventually "combine" his grit pool after 12 level or does he have 2 grit pools?
By how I am reading it a Mysterious Stranger 1 / Holy Gun 11 would have a grit pool of 2+Cha at the beginning of every day with a max of 2+(2*Cha)
1. how does a gunslinger take a full round attack with multiple bab (it seems to me you need at least a move action to reload)
One-Handed guns take a standard action to load. Two-handed guns take a full-round action to load. Effects that reduce the action required to reload a firearm stack. For example, Rapid Reload (feat) lowers the reload time of a single selected firearm by one step, using a paper or metal cartridge lowers it by one step, and using the Rapid Reload feat lowers it by one step.
Regardless of your build, your first level feat as a Gunslinger should be Rapid Reload. Then you can use your Gunsmithing feat to make paper cartridges for something like 6 gold. At 1st level, by taking the feat and using the cartridges, you can reload a pistol as a free action (standard to move to free) or a two-handed gun as a move action (full round to standard to move). Most people would say that you absolutely HAVE to go Musket Master if you use two-handed guns, as they get a deed that lets you load a two-handed gun as if it were one handed; in this scenario, your gun is loaded as a free action with those two modifiers.
At 11th level, you get the Lightning Reload Deed, which reduces everything by one additional step as long as you have at least one grit point. This is where a regular Gunslinger can start to take full attacks with two-handed weapons reliably, as you now have three action-reducers (Lightning and Reapid Reloads, plus cartridges).
At 7th level, you get the Dead Shot Deed, which works a lot like full attacking for the Gunslinger, except you do not get to add your damage bonuses multiple times. It's one attack, therefore, damage mods are added once. Unless you're a Mysterious Stranger; then your Focused Aim is multiplied if you use it.
2. can a person take twf with gunslinger, OR do they always need the other hand to clear and reload ect..
Gunslingers always need a free hand to reload their gun. Because of this, TWF Gunslingers are most effective with revolvers. The Sword and Pistol feat in Ultimate Combat provides an interesting solution for a firearms expert who wants to fight in melee as well. Use a weapon like a Spiked Gauntlet or something else that still allows you to have manual Dexterity and you can fight with it in your off-handed (it's light) and use the weapon to reload.
Ironically enough, the Spellslinger Wizard Archetype is the best class in the game at TWF with guns. They receive a new spell in Ultimate Combat where, and I kid you not, "ghostly hands reload your gun for you with ghostly ammunition" for as long as they're activated. The spell is a relatively short duration, but if the Spellslinger (or any other gunner) could find a way to have it reliably active on themselves, then it would work quite nicely.
There's also a combo with the Alchemist where you can take the Vestigial Arm discovery to gain a third arm. That arm can help you reload by using the hand you're holding the gun in and the new arm itself.
3. has anybody who hates the holy gun actually played one?
I've personally never played a Holy Gun, but if I was a player in a world that allowed guns, I totally would. I personally love the imagery. My only qualm with Ultimate Combat is that they tied Signature Deed to Gunslinger levels instead of Character Level; I would have loved to take Signature Deed with the Holy Shot Deed, but that might be a little cheesy xD.
4. walk me through a level2 gunslinger attacking in 4 rounds with a bullet blunderbiuss
I don't know you're build. Without rapid reload or cartridges, it looks like this:
Turn 1: Gunslinger fires his blunderbuss.
Turn 2: Gunslinger spends the round reloading.
Turn 3: Gunslinger moves and fires his blunderbuss.
Turn 4: Gunslinger spends the round reloading.
If you have paper cartridges OR Rapid Reload, it looks like this:
Turn 1: Gunslinger fires his blunderbuss (still has a move action).
Turn 2: Gunslinger loads his blunderbuss (still has a move action).
Turn 3: Gunslinger fires his blunderbuss (still has a move action).
Turn 4: Gunslinger loads his blunderbuss (still has a move action).
If you have paper cartridges and Rapid Reload, you'll be much happier:
Turn 1: Gunslinger fires his blunderbuss (still has a move action).
Turn 2: Gunslinger loads his blunderbuss and fires it. (full round)
Turn 3: Gunslinger loads his blunderbuss and fires it. (full round)
Turn 4: Gunslinger loads and fires his blunderbuss. (full round)
5. can a person take mysterious stranger, and then take holy gun and then get the grit pool based off cha instead of wisdom? or can a normal holy gun eventually "combine" his grit pool after 12 level or does he have 2 grit pools?
Good question. At 1st level, the Holy Gun gets the Amature Gunslinger feat for free, which specifically says that if the Holy Gun gains the Grit class feature, it is traded away for the Extra Grit feat. The Holy Grit ability at 11th level even adds in a clause for your plans, though: "If she already has levels in Gunslinger, she gains a bonus to the maximum amount of grit she can have each day, equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) but gains no extra grit as the start of each day."
So in the most liberal of interpretations, the Holy Gunslinger would add their Charisma bonus twice to determine how much grit points they receive, then as per the Armature Gunslinger feat, Amature Gunslinger would be traded away for the Extra Grit feat, which provides 2 more Grit Points. In other words, you're be rolling in grit points.
6. why isnt the shotgun in UC way more deadly than 1d8? shouldn't it be 10d8 at close range?
Damage is arbitrary, but look at it like this. When a shotgun is loaded with both of its chambers and fires at the same time, it deals 4d6 damage to the target creature. The average on 1d6 is 3.5. 4 x 3.5 is 14 damage. Now, most people in the real world would be 1st level characters; usually experts or commoners. They have a d8 hit dice, which means they have about 4 to 5 hit points.
A shotgun damage would take a normal person down to an average of -9 hit points. In 3.5, you're dead in six seconds after being shot if you don't stabilize. In Pathfinder, that number depends on your Constitution score, but if you're average, then you are also dead in six seconds; if you're below average, you're already dead. That seems pretty deadly to me!
thanks! you guys answered the questions I had,
and for the shotgun it was an arbitrary number i know it has to be fair...sigh
thanks! you guys answered the questions I had,
and for the shotgun it was an arbitrary number i know it has to be fair...sigh
Look at the bright side; you can still OTK a mook with it! :D
3. has anybody who hates the holy gun actually played one?
Well, I've seen someone play one. Blunderbus lets you smite everyone in a 15 ft cone, other guns only shoot 1 dude and therefore waste it one person.
4. walk me through a level2 gunslinger attacking in 4 rounds with a bullet blunderbiuss
A. Rapid reload, Paper cartiridge (or any alchemy cartiridge):
Rd 1: Fire (either cone or single), reload move,Rd 2: Fire (either cone or single), reload move,
Rd 3: Fire (either cone or single), reload move,
Rd 4: Fire (either cone or single), reload move,
C. Rapid reload, no Paper cartiridge (or any alchemy cartiridge), no rapid shot:
Rd 1: Fire (either cone or single),
Rd 2: Finish reload standard,
Rd 3: Fire (either cone or single),
Rd 4: Start reload standard,
At 3rd level, if you were a Musket master with raper cartiridge it would be free action reload.
At 3rd level, if you were a Musket master with raper cartiridge it would be free action reload.
I do not want that type of cartridge.
At 3rd level, if you were a Musket master with raper cartiridge it would be free action reload.I do not want that type of cartridge.
Raper cartridges; the only time where guns, and not people, are Chaotic Evil xD.
Raper cartridges; the only time where guns, and not people, are Chaotic Evil xD.At 3rd level, if you were a Musket master with raper cartiridge it would be free action reload.I do not want that type of cartridge.
Don't let Overdark hear about those we'll never hear the end of it.
3. has anybody who hates the holy gun actually played one?
Well, I've seen someone play one. Blunderbus lets you smite everyone in a 15 ft cone, other guns only shoot 1 dude and therefore waste it one person.
That is debatable.
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That is debatable.
3. has anybody who hates the holy gun actually played one?
Well, I've seen someone play one. Blunderbus lets you smite everyone in a 15 ft cone, other guns only shoot 1 dude and therefore waste it one person.
It's not debatable at all. Using Smiting Shot requires a standard action. Therefore, it cannot be combined with other effects that use specific actions (i.e. Vital Strike, Dead Shot Deed, Shot on the Run, the Blunderbuss scatter shot, etc.).
If the deed said that you spend grit to modify all attacks you made during the round, the archetype would have been much better.
That is debatable.
3. has anybody who hates the holy gun actually played one?
Well, I've seen someone play one. Blunderbus lets you smite everyone in a 15 ft cone, other guns only shoot 1 dude and therefore waste it one person.
It's not debatable at all. Using Smiting Shot requires a standard action. Therefore, it cannot be combined with other effects that use specific actions (i.e. Vital Strike, Dead Shot Deed, Shot on the Run, the Blunderbuss scatter shot, etc.).
If the deed said that you spend grit to modify all attacks you made during the round, the archetype would have been much better.
Wher are you getting that Scatter shot is a seperate standard action. It is just what you can do.
If you had Musket Master, rapid reload, and paper cartridges, rapid shot by 6th: you get 3 attacks that are scatter shots.
If it was its own seperate action, why mention Vital Strike?
So it was rules as intended to be able to not count it not as a standard action. But as just what you can do.
Scatter Weapon Quality: A weapon with the scatter weapon quality can shoot two different types of ammunition. It can fire normal bullets that target one creature, or it can make a scattering shot, attacking all creatures within a cone. Cannons with the scatter weapon quality only fire grapeshot, unless their descriptions state otherwise. When a scatter weapon attacks all creatures within a cone, it makes a separate attack roll against each creature within the cone. Each attack roll takes a –2 penalty, and its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not foil a scatter attack. If any of the attack rolls threaten a critical, confirm the critical for that attack roll alone. A firearm that makes a scatter shot misfires only if all of the attack rolls made misfire. If a scatter weapon explodes on a misfire, it deals triple its damage to all creatures within the misfire radius.