Ok, so say I decide to make a summoner using the Master Summoner Archetype. What is the best supporting set of feats, traits and whatnot?
You get Augment Summoning for free. I could see diabolical dabbler being a nice addition. However I didn't really see much else which would help the cause.
I imagine SF:Conjuration and GSF: Conjuration will help since so many Summoner spells are conjurations.
I'm not going to try and make the eidolon into a combatant at all. I'm going to make it into a face. Thus I don't intend to spend much effort on that.
Do you intend to play the summoner as a secondary combatant, or support.
Combat Casting works either way though.
Improved initiative is almost always a good feat.
Do you intend to play the summoner as a secondary combatant, or support.
Combat Casting works either way though.
Improved initiative is almost always a good feat.
I haven't really decided how it will work out. Is there really enough punch in the summon monster spells to be a significant combatant? This is for PFS and you are limited to one summoned critter at a time, so that may hamper the build enough for it to have to be support.
I haven't really decided how it will work out. Is there really enough punch in the summon monster spells to be a significant combatant? This is for PFS and you are limited to one summoned critter at a time, so that may hamper the build enough for it to have to be support.Do you intend to play the summoner as a secondary combatant, or support.
Combat Casting works either way though.
Improved initiative is almost always a good feat.
Once you get to summon monster 3 and you have augment summon they are can fight pretty well.
Everything is better with a celestial bison. Though I think that is one of the choices they removed from the list in Pathfinder. Presumably because they hate conjurers.
If Bestiary feats are allowed, Quicken Spell-like Ability (Summon Monster), you know that spell that the summoner can use as a spell-like ability, can be terrifyingly effective...
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It's wide open; generically I'd say just pump up survivability with save feats and toughness, exotic weapon proficiency: net is handy when you have nothing else to do.
The master summoner really is self-contained, so just focus on whatever other aspect you want. I'd make the best diplomat ever personally.
This is for PFS and you are limited to one summoned critter at a time, so that may hamper the build enough for it to have to be support.Umm.. no you're not.
You're limited to bringing into the scenario one 'pet' that works in combat.
For example (since they count Eidolons) you could not also bring in a riding dog that would fight in combat, or also have an animal companion, etc. that you would use in combat.
But you can summon as many things as you can. Now when your Eidolon is conjured you can only have one instance of your SLA active at a time, but that's different.
-James
That's good to know, thanks. That seemed like a fairly substantial limitation. Now it would just be an issue of how much to commit to a given fight, but that's spellcasting in general.
Well superior summoning is a good feat for you.
I've leaned towards a halfling focused on stealth. I see the summoner as a very good support caster that can hide from combat a good amount of the time.
Traits: Make stealth a class skill w/ +1 trait to it.
Feats: Eldritch Heritage: Shadow line of feats & hellcat stealth.
Til 12th level that leaves you with a feat free at around 5th level, salt to taste.
Personally I like the idea of bluff so I spent the other trait towards making bluff a class skill then when with skill focus: bluff.
The halfling does the role of the face, while the eidolon has a good number of skill dips that the skilled evolution makes into useful for the party. Make him into a swiss army knife kind of creature. Think of it as a familiar that you can design differently.
-James
These are good ideas, but I think it would suit the role play of the character I have in mind. He's supposed to be a cocky, brash, know it all, who creates a Houri as his eidolon which will act as his face since he doesn't like people enough to deal with them. I want the race to be human so I can get enough skill points to be a convincing know it all. I was thinking of a going for a trait to give perception, since I find that to be a mandatory skill in so many PFS adventures.
I can recognize that a halfling would be more effective, but I tend to think of the character I have in mind first, and then optimize.
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One thing I'm doing with my summoner is I dipped into Nature Oracle and took Animal Friend revelation. This and SF:Conjuration allows me to qualify for the Moonlight/Starlight/Sunlight Summons and will buff all my summons with those feats.
The oracle also gave me cure light wounds and remove sickness and some useful orisons as well, so I have 10 orisons I can cast unlimited times per day.
I second James' recommendation for Superior Summoning; it's pretty rad.
I'm not so sure that Moonlight/Starlight/Sunlight summons are worth the multiclassing and feat tax; I'm sure it depends in part on your campaign.
Traits are of course in part a matter of personal opinion. For my gnome master summoner, I took Fangwood Diplomat (+1 Diplomacy, Diplomacy as a class skill) to take advantage of the high charisma and give me character a bit more use in the skills area (the 2+Int kind of hurts - being a human should help you in that regard). That specific trait may not fit your character, but I would personally choose a trait with the intention of diversifying my skills - either a knowledge or charisma skill (maybe intimidate?). I'm leaning towards Deft Dodger for my other trait (+1 Reflex saves), since the saves need help.
Even though the master summoner lessens the importance of the eidolon, I still found it hard to work a build that didn't include extra evolution; you can do a lot with that extra point, even if it's just to boost another skill. I think it's also worth pointing out that at level 1, a master summoner's eidolon is as strong as a normal summoner's, so if you're starting from the beginning, you can still use it for combat early on (i.e. an argument for taking extra evolution at level 1).
Beyond that, I'm also trying to figure out some good feats to take, beyond the "boring" ones (Toughness, Lightning Reflexes). I've thought about picking up Skeleton Summoner, but having to take SF (Necromancy) is a bummer.
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Starlight summons is great if you can cast fog cloud or stuff like that. Your summons have blind fight!
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I've played a dozen or so PFS scenarios, and several of them have had surprise metal DR. Many mites with Cold Iron DR, a few monsters with Silver DR, and let's not forget magic DR. So having all of your summons have the ability to bypass them can be really nice, not to mention the bonus feats/immunities they get.
Though, in my case we're playing Kingmaker, and I gotta tell you I'm really looking forward to getting Starlight Summons for the ability to bypass CI/DR. Darn fey!
I really like the Diabolical Dabbler trait for Summoners. +1 hp per HD for every Fiendish template creature you summon. Sure, that means they aren't Celestial and can't smite. But there are plenty of times when you are fighting neutral enemies, or when you just want more of an HP soak then a damage dealer.
I find is meshes particularly well with my Chelaxian Summoner.
I really like the Diabolical Dabbler trait for Summoners. +1 hp per HD for every Fiendish template creature you summon. Sure, that means they aren't Celestial and can't smite. But there are plenty of times when you are fighting neutral enemies, or when you just want more of an HP soak then a damage dealer.
I find is meshes particularly well with my Chelaxian Summoner.
Wouldn't celestial soak up damage just as well, due to DR 5/evil?
If Bestiary feats are allowed, Quicken Spell-like Ability (Summon Monster), you know that spell that the summoner can use as a spell-like ability, can be terrifyingly effective...
sorry that is not allowed, as the summoners SLA is always at his level. And the feat calls out the need to have the SLA be 4 levels lower than the max level, the car is able to cast. have thought about it too though.
If Bestiary feats are allowed, Quicken Spell-like Ability (Summon Monster), you know that spell that the summoner can use as a spell-like ability, can be terrifyingly effective...sorry that is not allowed, as the summoners SLA is always at his level. And the feat calls out the need to have the SLA be 4 levels lower than the max level, the car is able to cast. have thought about it too though.
It's a moot point in PFS anyway as monster feats are not allowable for PCs.
Wouldn't celestial soak up damage just as well, due to DR 5/evil?I really like the Diabolical Dabbler trait for Summoners. +1 hp per HD for every Fiendish template creature you summon. Sure, that means they aren't Celestial and can't smite. But there are plenty of times when you are fighting neutral enemies, or when you just want more of an HP soak then a damage dealer.
I find is meshes particularly well with my Chelaxian Summoner.
You do realize that Fiendish creatures get the same DR as Celestial creatures do, right? The only difference is that Fiendish get DR X/good instead. And DR X/good is less likely to be bypassed than DR X/evil is. After all, you usually fight evil outsiders, and not good outsiders.
You do realize that Fiendish creatures get the same DR as Celestial creatures do, right? The only difference is that Fiendish get DR X/good instead. And DR X/good is less likely to be bypassed than DR X/evil is. After all, you usually fight evil outsiders, and not good outsiders.Wouldn't celestial soak up damage just as well, due to DR 5/evil?I really like the Diabolical Dabbler trait for Summoners. +1 hp per HD for every Fiendish template creature you summon. Sure, that means they aren't Celestial and can't smite. But there are plenty of times when you are fighting neutral enemies, or when you just want more of an HP soak then a damage dealer.
I find is meshes particularly well with my Chelaxian Summoner.
Does a creature with an alignment subtype's weapons count as that subtype?
Does a creature with an alignment subtype's weapons count as that subtype?
Yes.
Does a creature with an alignment subtype's weapons count as that subtype?Yes.
Well that changes everything.
I imagine SF:Conjuration and GSF: Conjuration will help since so many Summoner spells are conjurations.
Not that helpful really. Summoning doesn't benefit, nor do many of the Conjuration spells.
Improved Initiative should be choice #1 (since you get Augment Summoning for free)
I haven't really decided how it will work out. Is there really enough punch in the summon monster spells to be a significant combatant?
Not as tough as a PC, but still definitely significant. Also keep in mind summons are great for drawing attacks (that don't need healing afterwards), flanking, blocking, etc.
Everything is better with a celestial bison. Though I think that is one of the choices they removed from the list in Pathfinder. Presumably because they hate conjurers.
Summon monster got better in Pathfinder. Significantly. Sigh.
Everything is better with a celestial bison. Though I think that is one of the choices they removed from the list in Pathfinder. Presumably because they hate conjurers.
Do you mean the one that is in SM III or SM IV?