I have a bard that wants to add some spells to his spell list using a custom item, but I can't find a price.
Looking at a command word item like Cape of the Mountebank, that item lets anyone cast a 4th level mage spell (Dimension Door) with out provoking an AoO. This item costs about 10K gold to buy, about 5K gold to make
So if I made an item that let me cast a 4th level bard spell once a day, it seems like it would be around 5k BUT that item would let ANYONE cast it, with a command word, which doesn't provoke.
Would it be less for me to cast an make the item since it is for bards only, like 30% less? From the SRD "Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%." So now the price should be around 3500 to make 7000 to buy. Only bards could use the item, but it would still be a command word item that would not provoke.
But even that isn't want I want. I want a fair price per spell level, to make an item to add spells to my list of spells known. A spell cast in this manner would provoke as normal, and would come out of my daily spell slots. Is there an item around like that, or if not, how can I price such an item by spell level?
Level 1
Level 2
Level 3
Level 4
etc
Thanks
Prawn
I guess my point is that if it costs 5K to make an item to let a fighter cast a 4th level bard spell without provoking an AoA, making an item that lets a bard add a spell to his own list that he casts using his own slots provoking AoOs as normal should be less. But what is a fair price? If I can't find a fair price, I'll just use the 5K price for a command word item. Seems like at that point, though, I should be able to choose a spell from any class, like the 4th level cleric spell divine favor. That's not what I am after, I just want to learn some more spells.
There are traits and feats that let you do this:
Trait: this one works each level like the extra skill point or hit point per level: It is for Bards, sorcerers, witches, etc: "Add one spell known from the bard spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the bard can cast."
Feat: Expanded Arcane which lets you learn more spells (1 of highest level or 2 of lower level).
If we can't price the adding spell slots thing, there are surely precedents for the price of an item that duplicates a trait or a feat.
What would be a fair price for an item that duplicates this human bard trait or the expanded arcane feat?
I guess my point is that if it costs 5K to make an item to let a fighter cast a 4th level bard spell without provoking an AoA, making an item that lets a bard add a spell to his own list that he casts using his own slots provoking AoOs as normal should be less. But what is a fair price? If I can't find a fair price, I'll just use the 5K price for a command word item.
You're more or less correct, but the problem is that adding a spell to your spell slots is a lot more than "one-per-day": it's literally adding versatility to your character.
I'm not a big fan of spell casters with spell-likes (supernaturals or unusual effects like bard song are fine). Instead, what I like to do, usually, is give spontaneous casters access to their spell-likes as spell known of the appropriate level. One thing I've noticed, however, is that this makes them very dangerous very quickly. Why? Because they suddenly have more spells known. Not just a once-and-done spell, but constantly available spell at any time.
That said, it's not as powerful to make a person use their resources instead of just getting something "for free".
One suggested idea:
- take a look at an item that would normally grant a free spell you could use at-will ("100 charges", IIRC). Stat out that item.
- Either apply the "no slot" modifier or not, depending on whether or not you're taking a slot. (I'd make it take a slot, or be something like an ioun stone)
- Change it from an at-will item to a 4/day item (IIRC, that's the normal amount of bardic spells per day sans CHA-boons).
- Add a specific skill and spell-casting class selection as requirements, plus the fact that it costs a spell-slot to activate (effectively granting you an extra spell on your spells-known list). I'd adjucate the 30% discount for those restrictions - that sounds fair enough, as, unless you're a party of bards, you aren't going to be able to pass it around. Note: this is totally my personal adjucation, not RAW.
- Make yourself to cut down on costs. This'd take ranks in whatever craft kind the item turns out to be. This is completely optional. Alternatively (or additionally) take item crafting feats. Also optional, but far more cost effective.
- If you want, add more than one spell, going through the process for each (although, IIRC, this means a mark-up in subsequent pricing. I don't know if this or the slot-less cost is cheaper.)
I honestly don't know how that'd look compared to your 5K price, as I don't have the book in front of me, however, I'd say that it effectively approximates what you're going for.
EDIT: Ah! Stealth-ninja'd-edited'd!
As far as the pricing of items duplicating feats, there might be something out there, but I'm fairly certain it's pretty pricey, and I don't recall right now.
EDIT 2:
Huh. I can't read the second half of your (Prawn's) post except when editing now. Er, just in case, this what my first edit was responding to:
Seems like at that point, though, I should be able to choose a spell from any class, like the 4th level cleric spell divine favor. That's not what I am after, I just want to learn some more spells.
There are traits and feats that let you do this:
Trait: this one works each level like the extra skill point or hit point per level: It is for Bards, sorcerers, witches, etc: "Add one spell known from the bard spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the bard can cast."
Feat: Expanded Arcane which lets you learn more spells (1 of highest level or 2 of lower level).
If we can't price the adding spell slots thing, there are surely precedents for the price of an item that duplicates a trait or a feat.
What would be a fair price for an item that duplicates this human bard trait or the expanded arcane feat?
It only costs 5k to let a fighter do that once per day. A bard could conceivably cast their new spell many times per day. What you're looking for sounds more like a staff or wand, where it allows a caster to cast spells that are on their list, but they might not have actually learned.
Those are great suggestions, Tact, but ultimately I don't want an item that casts a spell for me, I want to duplicate the effects of the feat Expanded Arcane or the trait from the APG "Add one spell known from the bard spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the bard can cast."
I am a 10th level bard. I can cast two 4th level spells a day. I think an item that lets me cast other spells 1-4 times more will make me much more dangerous than an item that adds a spell to my list that I can cast using my two spell slots a day.
Your suggestion about characters becoming much more dangerous might apply to a sorcerer who has six spells to cast, but not to me, with my one slot, plus one for high CHA.
Prawn
Those are great suggestions, Tact, but ultimately I don't want an item that casts a spell for me...
I know. It's about the closest approximation I could come up with. Also...
..., I want to duplicate the effects of the feat Expanded Arcane or the trait from the APG "Add one spell known from the bard spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the bard can cast."
... I see that now, however not before I posted. For whatever reason the part I quoted in my edit 2 showed up only when I was editing (correcting spelling and stuff), not before.
...Your suggestion about characters becoming much more dangerous might apply to a sorcerer who has six spells to cast, but not to me, with my one slot, plus one for high CHA.
I'd entirely say it's all in the spell you choose!
BUT! If you want a different take, or a cheaper item, I'd go with my suggestions above, but drop the 4/day to 1/day - also, I'd restrict the use of said item (or rather said spell stored in the item) to 1/day. Effectively, you could cast the spell once per day only, but it would be you casting the spell, not the item (the CL for making the item would be the minimum CL needed to be able to cast the spell for each additional spell added to you - each spell would have a different CL and thus basis for cost-alteration). That way, it's not much different than what you already have.
Outside of that, your best bet would be to imitate the staff's pricing guides, as Bobson suggested. Staves have a CL, but they go with either that or your CL, whichever is more, and you can meditate and sacrifice a daily spell-slot to recharge the staff, which is similar to actually casting the spell yourself. Again, not a perfect fit, but I don't have my books with me.
THanks again for the suggestions! I am making a cool item called the Belt of the Badass Bard and I wanted to put some spellyness in there.
Cheers!
P
I wish I could remember how the value of the sorcerer's crystal in Relics & Rituals II was calculated. But it's been ten years, two game revisions, and a hard drive partitioning accident since I wrote it, and an item that can give a 20th-level sorcerer a changeable 9th-level spell is more valuable than what you're considering.
I believe that keyed spell items from Monte Cook's Book of Hallowed Might II: Portents and Visions are exactly what you're looking for. I showed them to my GM and she graciously allowed me to purchase them for my sorcerer/oracle, in the form of individual Harrow cards, for our Golarion campaign. Very nice, customizable and reasonably priced. As a bonus, I now have a reason to use my character's Harrow deck as an integral part of his spellcasting.