I thought about taking advantage of the pressure point tricks from the ninja and the flurry of stars, making it a halfling, who can easily take away some points of strength of an opponent fast.
So, here the build, which is for PFS, first two abilities, to have some combat ability right away:
Ninja, halfling
STR 10, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 16
1. TWF
2. Finesse rogue
3. Pressure points (he can now take up to 3 poiints of STR away in one round with full attack and ki)
4. Combat trick: Point blank shot
5. Precise shot (to get rid of the -4 when throwing into melee, PBS is needed as a pre-req unfortunately)
6. Flurry of Stars (if opponent flat-footed, up to 5 STR)
7. Far shot or deadly aim (what's better far shot for greater distance to throw shuriken, or deadly aim to improve damage, but also reduce accuracy - unless there is a feat which lets you add Dex as damage onto thrown weapons)
8. Vanishing trick
9. ITWF
10. Improved vanishing trick
11. Assassinate
Traits: reactionary and strong arm, supptle wrist
Any comments, suggestions for improvement are more then welcome.
Really no input, or is that disastrous?
Really no input, or is that disastrous?
I like it if that helps, But anything ninja really makes me excited.
It's a good build. The only thing I see that needs changing are the traits. Both are combat traits so you'll have to switch one to something else. As cool as Strong Arm, Supple Wrist is, it looks like you're going to want to full attack with shuriken as often as possible so moving 10 feet to get increased range won't come up as often. Although it would be nice for a scout ninja if your GM allowed you to take that archetype for you ninja (some folks are split on that). Other than that it seems like you could be an effective switch hitter; throwing shuriken, using pressure points to soften them up, then closing in to flank with paired light melee weapons.
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You don't need weapon finesse, ranged attacks are already based on dex. Point blank shot should be your first feat, rapid shot and two-weapon fighting reduce how easily you hit your opponent, so they should wait until you have a BAB, like 3rd or 5th level. You want vanishing trick earlier so you can actually use pressure points, you should have all 3 by 6th level.
Will rearrange some feats - any good traits? Reactionary is good (or might take adopted - elven reflexes) to make space for a combat trait...
But what to lower if I want to raise strength?
But what to lower if I want to raise strength?
Well, with 8 skillpoints a level, you dont really NEED Int.
If it were me, I'd take 3 points out of con (leaving a 12) and bump str up to 12 (halfling makes a 14 too expensive), and then take points out of int to bring Wis up to a 10-12.
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But what to lower if I want to raise strength?Well, with 8 skillpoints a level, you dont really NEED Int.
If it were me, I'd take 3 points out of con (leaving a 12) and bump str up to 12 (halfling makes a 14 too expensive), and then take points out of int to bring Wis up to a 10-12.
That's true int on a ninja is kinda pointless, only kinda.
This is how I rate the stats for importance on a ninja.
1 Cha-all of your cool powers run on it, as does your ki.
2 dex/str- they are tied because you need them to fight
4 Con/int- depends on what you are going for, more combat-oriented:Con, more non-combat-oriented:Int.
6 Wisdom- it doesn't do much for you.
I typically go with the non-combat version, just by simple use of ninja tricks (vanishing when you get badly hurt) you can greatly improve your chance of not getting dead.
Thanks for all the advise, so changed STR, CON, INT and WIS. For racial traits, swift as shadows worth taking? To get a better option to snipe?
Shuriken have poor range. you aren't benefitting from the thrown benefits, and 2WF is a trap. i had a 1 year period where i played among multiple groups, a total of 3 Dex Based 2WF rogues. the results were not worth the investment. and i learned that relying on a situational damage bonus isn't a good idea. no matter how large the bonus looks at first glance.
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Shuriken have poor range. you aren't benefitting from the thrown benefits, and 2WF is a trap. i had a 1 year period where i played among multiple groups, a total of 3 Dex Based 2WF rogues. the results were not worth the investment. and i learned that relying on a situational damage bonus isn't a good idea. no matter how large the bonus looks at first glance.
TWF is a trap for most classes, the ninja has an advantage most don't: vanishing trick. While it's not as good as the paladin's smite ability (and really, what is?) usually is, it's still pretty good. This bonus is situational, but that situation is basically in the ninja's hands, not dependent on ambushes, and the like.
The end result is very likely to turn a target or two off every round. Ability damage coming in large volumes isn't pleasant, done to your flat-footed AC outright sucks (with a +2 hit if you are sighted, which most creatures are), and attached to lots of sneak attack damage is absolutely nightmarish. Yes it takes a lot of resources, but it's worth it, what else are you going to buy?
Shuriken have poor range. you aren't benefitting from the thrown benefits, and 2WF is a trap. i had a 1 year period where i played among multiple groups, a total of 3 Dex Based 2WF rogues. the results were not worth the investment. and i learned that relying on a situational damage bonus isn't a good idea. no matter how large the bonus looks at first glance.TWF is a trap for most classes, the ninja has an advantage most don't: vanishing trick. While it's not as good as the paladin's smite ability (and really, what is?) usually is, it's still pretty good. This bonus is situational, but that situation is basically in the ninja's hands, not dependent on ambushes, and the like.
The end result is very likely to turn a target or two off every round. Ability damage coming in large volumes isn't pleasant, done to your flat-footed AC outright sucks (with a +2 hit if you are sighted, which most creatures are), and attached to lots of sneak attack damage is absolutely nightmarish. Yes it takes a lot of resources, but it's worth it, what else are you going to buy?
yay, for the first 10 levels, i can blow a swift action and 1 point from a very limited pool to guarantee a single sneak attack. and by becoming overly reliant on this pool, i hinder my ability to function without it. ninja suffers from the same problem as the monk did before the hungry ghost archtype. bleeds chi points faster than americans go through cows, and no way to recover them. it is also reliant on a stat that doesn't bear a lot of weight outside of the chi pool.
invisible blade is practically a requirement that is gained too late.
It's Ki, not chi, yes they are basically the same thing, but it's basically the only way to make shuriken useful, especially when a shortbow is available, and the ammo on the shortbow is cheaper, even if it weighs slightly more.
He wants to build a shuriken ninja, this is the best way.
i guess i can let him learn what i learned from a year of analysis with 3 different characters.
yes, a chi point can get you a sneak attack. but sneak attacks are so easy to negate. there are a lot of 2nd level spells that foil it, creature abilities that counter it. and some of these counters are cheap. like dogs. i'd reccomend at least a spiked gauntlet as a backup weapon. so you can flank when invisibility is negated.
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i guess i can let him learn what i learned from a year of analysis with 3 different characters.
yes, a chi point can get you a sneak attack. but sneak attacks are so easy to negate. there are a lot of 2nd level spells that foil it, creature abilities that counter it. and some of these counters are cheap. like dogs. i'd reccomend at least a spiked gauntlet as a backup weapon.
Eh, on my ninja I've already ran into dogs, they didn't have any effect on me or my plans. Most monsters don't have magic and those spells that do mess up sneak attack typically have flaw, they tend to blind the caster, they don't last very long, or they can be overcome with a feat. Improved Precise shot goes a long way here. Which, if he's expecting a ton of casters he can pick up.
i guess our play experiences are different.
weekly william employs all sorts of smart but dirty tactics.
breaking flanks with 5 foot steps, using flour to cheaply counter invisibility, placing lead lining on traps, sundering equipment, sending 'thieves' to steal key items, combining several daily encounters together to increase short term lethality. (with an increased effective daily encounter count) he is slowly becoming less lethal. but he is still pretty darn lethal.
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I had one GM who didn't understand what CR means, he thinks that CR doesn't increase when you add creatures to the encounter, or that on the encounter tables that the 1d4+1 of x critter is a CR y encounter, when CR y is the number on the table, instead of being CR y+z. We could handle about one of those encounters a day, but only because he made resurrection a readily available, and fairly cheap thing.
Keep in mind: this is after I tried explaining to him what he was doing wrong and why all the players were complaining. I usually don't complain to gms during the game, I usually reserve it for later, but one of his earliest encounters left me furious enough to say something while we were playing. He built the encounter, not for our level, but for what he thought they should be, with no regard to the fact that the lowest level thing in that encounter was 3 levels higher than us, and we were outnumbered 3 to one.
Stupid neutral pirates. Pirates are evil, by alignment, they kill, and steal for a living: that's evil.
Stupid neutral pirates. Pirates are evil, by alignment, they kill, and steal for a living: that's evil.
Adventurers do that too. but some of them are somehow allowed to call themselves good.
weekly william doesn't bother with XP, he just says that you level when he says you do. at least when he includes hordes of opponents, he uses proprotionately weaker ones.
when i have DMed (in some rare short lived circumstances) i tend to minmax my monsters, mooks especially. i have adopted some but not all of his traits.
unlike weekly william, i am actually kind enough to give Freebies when i intend to run a high powered campaign. a kind of suspicious generosity.
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Right, but pirates do it to innocent people, good adventurers typically do it to monsters (kind of like hunting), people who attack first (clearly evil, as good-aligned, and neutral-aligned individuals try talking first, that's if they actually follow their alignments), which is self-defense, and to bad guys. There is some ambiguity in there, but it's up to the GM if they want to address it.
Most of my GMs, including the aforementioned one, simply give out levels.
When I DM it's in Hero System, where I can tailor my encounters for them, I look over the copies of the PCs I have, and build encounters that they can handle statistically. I did once run pathfinder, before 4th edition came out, and 4th edition killed any desire I had to run d20.
I give out freebies if it fills out the character concept, but that's about it.
Right, but pirates do it to innocent people, good adventurers typically do it to monsters (kind of like hunting), people who attack first (clearly evil, as good-aligned, and neutral-aligned individuals try talking first, that's if they actually follow their alignments), which is self-defense, and to bad guys. There is some ambiguity in there, but it's up to the GM if they want to address it.
Most of my GMs, including the aforementioned one, simply give out levels.
When I DM it's in Hero System, where I can tailor my encounters for them, I look over the copies of the PCs I have, and build encounters that they can handle statistically. I did once run pathfinder, before 4th edition came out, and 4th edition killed any desire I had to run d20.
I give out freebies if it fills out the character concept, but that's about it.
i give out that kind of freebie as well. but what i was talking about was more like giving extra resources to compensate for the challenges i intend to send. like higher attributes, or even things like gestalt or discounted templates. usually this is used to determine the power level.
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i give out that kind of freebie as well. but what i was talking about was more like giving extra resources to compensate for the challenges i intend to send. like higher attributes, or even things like gestalt or discounted templates. usually this is used to determine the power level.
Oh, I call that "building more powerful characters" I don't consider it a freebie at all, it's the style we are playing in.
i give out that kind of freebie as well. but what i was talking about was more like giving extra resources to compensate for the challenges i intend to send. like higher attributes, or even things like gestalt or discounted templates. usually this is used to determine the power level.Oh, I call that "building more powerful characters" I don't consider it a freebie at all, it's the style we are playing in.
i guess that does make sense.
I will give it a try at least, will see how this goes - and also being able to snipe will probably help. But decided to take TWF, so sniping first PBS, precise, pressure points, and then later on Weapon finesse and TWF, to be a switch hitter.
And this is for PFS, so adventures are set, might be an advantage or disadvantage...
Blackbeard, never killed a single prisoner (as far as anyone can tell).
..but seemingly many other innocent people (as far as anyone can tell.)
Now, wait, sec. Morality. Net.
Anyone I kill is evil, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to kill me.
This is good.
Everyone I kill is part of my plan for structured freedom and rallies, on schedule, against my enemies' plans of denying me my freedom by forcibly terminating my will, via death.
Lawful Good. Fer sure.
WE HAVE THE TAPES!
I like it but prefer Gnome flavour.