Waking up

[Preston27]

This has been coming up in game quite a bit. During the night something happens and the party members on watch yell at the sleeping party members to wake up. The DM has ruled (because we can find no other rules otherwise) that it is a DC 0 perception check to be woken, but at the -20 penalty for being unconscious.

Is there an official rule for a check to be woken up?

[Eric Clingenpeel]

Preston27 wrote:

This has been coming up in game quite a bit. During the night something happens and the party members on watch yell at the sleeping party members to wake up. The DM has ruled (because we can find no other rules otherwise) that it is a DC 0 perception check to be woken, but at the -20 penalty for being unconscious.

Is there an official rule for a check to be woken up?

Page 102 of the core rule book.

Detail ................................... Perception DC
Hear the sound of battle ............... –10
Hear the details of a conversation ..... 0

Perception Modifiers .................... DC Modifier
Creature making the check is asleep .. +10

So the DC would be 0 to hear battle while asleep.
To hear a conversation (someone talking waking you up) would be a DC 10.

I would rule yelling as the same as hearing the sounds of battle, a DC 5 at the worse.

[Preston27]

Does the noticing a conversation/hearing battle automatically wake you up?

[Roaming Shadow]

A DC of 0 is an automatic success. Natural 1s are not auto failures for skill checks, so even a 1 beats the DC, there fore you can't fail unless for some reason you have a negetive wisdom modifier and therefore a negetive perception modifier.

[Preston27]

Where do you get that rule from, Roaming Shadow?

[Roaming Shadow]

Well, look through the core book. You will find nothing that says that Nat 20s and Nat 1s mean anything special in skill checks. Nat 20s and Nat 1s only have special meaning when specifically called out, such as on attack rolls and a few other places. If the final DC of a check, after all applicable modifiers both positive and negetive, is 0, then unless you are capable of getting a score of -1 or lower on the skill check, you can't fail it. Even a character with a Wisdom of 8 and no ranks in Perception still has a minimal result of 0, which matches, and therefore succeeds (I'm pretty sure Perception needs only match or exceed to be aware, I may have to double check theat). Under most circumstances, because a DC 0 is all but impossible not to make, it's usually considered an automatic success, because like I said, you'd need a Wisdom score of 7 or less, or some penalties applied directly to the player and not the DC, to not be able to meet a DC 0 with a roll of 1.

So, okay, I may have been overstepping myself by calling it an automatic success, but pretty much any skill check in which you simply cannot fail, ie even a nat 1 will be the DC, is generally considered an automatic success, as it is impossible to fail the check.

[David Thomassen]

Combat Automatic Miss and hits
Saves Automatic Failures and Successes
No such rule for Skill checks, etc. Exceptions being discussed Here
So, given that the conversation DC is 0 you will always hear a coversation happening within 10' unless you have a negative Wisdom modifier and no ranks in perception. Remember the rules for range and get some sleep. Perception

[Preston27]

I wasn't clear before, the ruling I was asking is the DC 0 to wake up. Does the notice check automatically wake you up if you notice? He is now trying to implement the wake up action from the sleep spell to be his standard ruling, which states "Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action)."

[Roaming Shadow]

Magically induced sleep is another matter entirely, and should not be used as a basis for mundane sleep.

[Preston27]

Roaming Shadow wrote:

Magically induced sleep is another matter entirely, and should not be used as a basis for mundane sleep.

That's what I said.

[Eric Clingenpeel]

Succeeding on the check doesn't simply mean that the sound reaches your location, it means you hear it. If you are able to hear it and "Hear the details of a conversation" you kind of have to be awake to do that. It's really not that hard to wake up if someone is shouting 10' from you... Unless you're a REALLY heavy sleeper.

[Some call me Tim]

Preston27 wrote:

I wasn't clear before, the ruling I was asking is the DC 0 to wake up. Does the notice check automatically wake you up if you notice? He is now trying to implement the wake up action from the sleep spell to be his standard ruling, which states "Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action)."

I've always played DC 0 (-10 loud noise, +10 sleeping) to perceive someone yelling. As with any other perception check it's up to the player to decide what to do, in this case to get up and join the battle or roll over and go back to sleep.

I don't understand the DM adding -20 to perception checks for being unconscious on top of the increasing the DC 10 points for sleeping. That means that no commoner can be roused by yelling. That's completely silly.

[Roaming Shadow]

Speaking of sleeping, if you look through the core rulebook, a rules lawyer will point out that there are no mechanical effects to not sleeping, so technically no one has to sleep, as by the rules there are no penalties for not doing so, making it optional, and anything that says otherwise is a houserule that detracts from the heroic nature of the game and "rule of cool".

Yeah, I don't agree with that, but hey, rules lawyers will be rules lawyers. I do find it odd that there are rules for stravation and thirst, but not sleep deprivation.

[Reckless]

Don't forget thje penalties for distance in you perception checks. One does not automatically hear a battle when sleeping unless it's happening right nearby.

[Darkflame]

if you realy want to take this 1 step further you could rule there is a certain percentage that you are in REM sleep and it wil be verry dificult to actulay get you to wake up but in stage 1 and 2 of sleep you actualy are alot easyer to wake.

a perception check of DC5 would in my eyes be certainly high enough to wake somebody in not REM sleep but in REM it would require more of a touch on the other hand people with survival skils in real life tend to wake alot quiqer in outdoor locations as their senses are honed to real danger (bears wolves etc.) your brain is stil active when sleeping and it realy can percieve the difrence between talking yelling ot yelling to warn you. this is why woman with newborn baby's actualy wake VERRY easy if their child makes sounds. but could just sleep trough alot of difrent noises easily.