So recently some of my players complained about Pathfinder becoming bloated with new options after the APG, ultimate magic and ultimate combat was released.
I find this somewhat puzzling and ironic seeming that these same players couldn't get enough options during the 3.5 era, and every book was carefully examined repeatedly to find the most cheesy and OP options available.
Are my player's getting lazy, or is it the increased responsibilities of RL which has reduced the time they want to spend on roleplaying games?
I'm concerned that their heart is no longer with the game and that their enthusiasm has waned. Have anyone else experienced something similar to this?
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3.5 was all about the splat, and the payoff of finding a completely broken combination made all that effort worth while. AFAIK, the Paizo stuff has a bit more balance to it, so there's less of an edge for the powergamer.
It could also be that your group has 'been there, done that' in terms of cheese. For my own experience, that happened in homeschool with RIFTS. After taking broken gaming to staggering extremes, most of our playing group stopped even optimizing their characters.
Sometimes it can be fun to have a weakness or two.
My advice to such a GM is to stretch your legs with a different campaign style for a while. Grab 'We Be Goblins' and see what happens. Could be just the refresher that gets them oogling that Magus/Spellslinger combo again.
So recently some of my players complained about Pathfinder becoming bloated with new options after the APG, ultimate magic and ultimate combat was released.
I find this somewhat puzzling and ironic seeming that these same players couldn't get enough options during the 3.5 era, and every book was carefully examined repeatedly to find the most cheesy and OP options available.
Are my player's getting lazy, or is it the increased responsibilities of RL which has reduced the time they want to spend on roleplaying games?
I'm concerned that their heart is no longer with the game and that their enthusiasm has waned. Have anyone else experienced something similar to this?
Your group could always agree to just use the core rulebook...or core + APG, etc. Just because the OPTIONS are out there, doesn't mean they have to be used, IMO. Maybe the new stuff should be slowly introduced in the game world (like running into NPC Ninjas, etc.) rather than plopping it down all at once? That might add some mystery or make the new stuff feel special. I find it really really odd that people (in their own home games) think the RPG police are coming to take their stuff away if they don't memorize every rule and stay on the razor edge of the SOTA...
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So recently some of my players complained about Pathfinder becoming bloated with new options after the APG, ultimate magic and ultimate combat was released.
I find this somewhat puzzling and ironic seeming that these same players couldn't get enough options during the 3.5 era, and every book was carefully examined repeatedly to find the most cheesy and OP options available.
Are my player's getting lazy, or is it the increased responsibilities of RL which has reduced the time they want to spend on roleplaying games?
I'm concerned that their heart is no longer with the game and that their enthusiasm has waned. Have anyone else experienced something similar to this?
Maybe they should move to North Korea. There are fewer options there for them to rage against.
Neither I nor my group, do not use any of the material from the Ultimate series, but I don't have any problems with Paizo making it.
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For the most part, I don't find the bloat to be too bad. Sure there are a lot more options now and if you spend time you can find the published variant that creates the character you want without resorting to too much GM House Rules.
In very few cases have I found the addtional feats and class varriants "must have" for all. Power Attack/Dealy Aim, Toughness, Spell Focus, Weapon Focus, Improved Initiative are still my go to feats.
I have tried new character ideas built around new feat chains and archetypes. But more often then not, I like my pure fighter build over most of the variants.
IMO, the "rules bloat" (not that Pathfinder has even started to come close to D&D 3.5, yet) is different: Paizo seems to be concentrating a lot more on variants (archetypes) to expand the range of existing classes, rather than focusing on new classes and prestige classes. Also, Paizo has tried to avoid duplication, so that there aren't many stackable options to specialize in the same thing in different publications.
This is a good thing, IMO. For those who like to sift through multiple "splat books" for "broken" combinations, however, it's disappointing that they can't "build" a character with as much "power" as they can in 3.5.
IMO, the "rules bloat" (not that Pathfinder has even started to come close to D&D 3.5, yet) is different: Paizo seems to be concentrating a lot more on variants (archetypes) to expand the range of existing classes, rather than focusing on new classes and prestige classes. Also, Paizo has tried to avoid duplication, so that there aren't many stackable options to specialize in the same thing in different publications.
This is a good thing, IMO. For those who like to sift through multiple "splat books" for "broken" combinations, however, it's disappointing that they can't "build" a character with as much "power" as they can in 3.5.
My players have been complaining that the archetypes are to weak in comparison to just playing the classes vanilla, and I have to say I agree in some part. A lot of the concepts the archetypes are suppossed to allow for is more easily achieved by going vanilla. Unlike 3.5 Pathfinder rewards you for going single class which results in pretty unimaginative groups around my table.
It's not that I want broken combos, but I would like some options that were as relevant as just playing with the core book, after all I have invested a lot of money in the splat-books and I would like my players to use them.
That said, in my Jade regent Campaign one of the players has chosen to play a monk/ninja based on the style feats, so there are some interest in the new material amongst my players.