The title says it all. Here we go!
STR (22), DEX (12), CON (18), INT (12), WIS (15), CHA (16)
Level: 20
Class: Paladin (Favored [All 20 Skill Points]; No Archetype)
Average HP: 180
Race: Human
Skills: Diplomacy, Knowledge (Religion), Sense Motive, Spellcraft
Feats: Power Attack (1), Furious Focus (1), Extra Lay On Hands (3), Step Up (5), Vital Strike (7), Improved Critical (9), Critical Focus (11), Improved Vital Strike (13), Staggering Critical (15), Greater Vital Strike (17), Stunning Critical (19)
Gear: Falchion and whatever is found through adventure
My only thing is that I'm not sure how Vital Strike stacks with Power Attack. The description of VS also makes it seem as he would only get one attack, but with Furious Focus, that should be a hell of a hit, especially on a critical. Please let me know if I have overlooked something.
Thanks!
|
Personally I would swap Con and Cha around to get the extra saves, the extra AC and To Hit when smiting, additional LoH per day. Your Fort save remains the same as the added Cha makes up for the loss of Con
If skills are important enough to use your favoured class on I would swap Int and Wis around. That gives an extra skill per lvl, the increased Cha means your Will save remains the same, you could now spend the 20 favoured class for hp and make up for the decrease of Con.
So, by swapping Con and Cha you get:
No change to Fort saves
+1 saves to Will
+1 saves to Reflex
+1 To Hit and AC when Smiting
Extra LoH
Additional bonus on social skills
-20 hp
By swapping Wis and Int you get:
+20 skill points
-1 to Will saves
Loss of bonus on Wis based skills
Gain a bonus on Int based skills
By changing Favoured class to hp instead of skills you get:
-20 skill points
+20hp
So, overall the changes leave you with:
+1 Reflex saves
+1 To Hit and AC when Smiting
Extra LoH
Additional bonus on social skills (Diplomacy etc.)
Additional Bonus on Int based skills (Knowledge)
Skill points remain the same
hp remains the same
Will saves the same
Fort saves the same
Loss of bonus on Wis based skills (Perception)
Extra LoH is not really necessary though if you are an Oath of Vengeance Pally it may not be bad. But otherwise the extra Cha has already given you a bonus LoH so you should have about 14 uses a day.
Not a huge fan of the Vital Strike chainmyself as it prevents you having additional attacks in the round. It is handy if you have to move in the round anyway, but hard to justify feats for it
Those changes sound good! I'm thinking of placing two increases into Wisdom rather than Strength to allow him to be able to cast 4th level spells.
Step Up and Extra Lay on Hands were wild cards in that I saw no other feats that really grabbed my attention (other than Weapon Focus). Step Up seemed a nice way to counter casters by forcing either a concentration check or an AoO. Extra Lay on Hands seemed a good way to make the pally more self-sustainable, especially since his AC is going to be lacking due to not having a shield. The idea behind the build was to have one massive attack every round that's nearly unmissable.
With this build I see one smiting attack at +28 to hit and will land 95-139 damage, depending on the targets alignment (these numbers assume a normal weapon with no enhancements). A critical hit (which will be happening ~25% of the time) will pump that damage up by +67 and will stun the target if they're not immune to that effect.
Without Vital Strike and a full smiting Power Attack, the damage potential significantly increases. Then if, by some miracle, all four hits are critical the damage is basically ridiculous. But the attack bonuses go +28/+3/-2/-7. So hitting, let alone confirming a critical hit, seems to be a grim prospect past the first hit.
Well then to heck with Wisdom, back to 22 Strength!
Why are you figuring you're iteratives would be so low?
Without gear, with power attack and smite, you have +23/+18/+13/+8 for 2d4+47 each, vs one attack at +29 for 6d4+47. The ImpVS only gives avg +10 damage that does not improve with gear upgrades and only on the rounds that you use your move action.
Basic gear gets you to something like an extra +10 to attacks and +8+2d6 damages easy, not counting party buffs and smarter/better gear, the last attack might be a throwaway, but the 2nd and probably 3rd will more than make up for missing VS.
I would think that the feat "Selective Channeling" would be a must have.. if you do any channel energy burst to heal, you could be healing your enemy as well!
Just figured it out, you're using 3.5 power attack not PF power attack, which would make furious focus ridiculously broken. If that cheese flies, by all means stick with the one attack.
Just figured it out, you're using 3.5 power attack not PF power attack, which would make furious focus ridiculously broken. If that cheese flies, by all means stick with the one attack.
Aww hamburgers! Back to the drawing board!
|
|
20th level?
CHA is your primo stat -- it floats your boat and saves your ass. STR22? Bah. You'll get by with a 14 and Power Attack....or go DEX route with Piranha Strike and Agile weapons (and switch-hit with bows).
Paladins are a great class to have fairly even numbers in stats (with emphasis on CHA and attack-stat), especially if you're point-buying and want maximum total bonus bang.
20th level?
CHA is your primo stat -- it floats your boat and saves your ass. STR22? Bah. You'll get by with a 14 and Power Attack....or go DEX route with Piranha Strike and Agile weapons (and switch-hit with bows).
Paladins are a great class to have fairly even numbers in stats (with emphasis on CHA and attack-stat), especially if you're point-buying and want maximum total bonus bang.
A good point but it seems Strength would allow bonuses in more situations than relying on smiting. In this case though I think I will change them to: STR 19, DEX 12, CON 16, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 22.
Lets try these feats: Power Attack (1), Furious Focus (1), Weapon Focus (3), Step Up (5), Hammer the Gap (7), Improved Critical (9), Critical Focus (11), Staggering Critical (13), Extra Lay On Hands (15), Stunning Critical (17), Toughness (19).
I've also been working on an alternate TWF Shield build that sounds fun to play that goes like this: STR 20, DEX 19, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 16.
Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting (1), Improved Shield Bash (1), Power Attack (3), Step Up (5), Shield Slam (7), Improved Two Weapon Fighting (9), Shield Mastery (11), Greater Two Weapon Fighting (13), Bashing Finish (15), Lightning Reflexes (17), Toughness (19).
|
|
A good point but it seems Strength would allow bonuses in more situations than relying on smiting. In this case though I think I will change them to: STR 19, DEX 12, CON 16, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 22.
Lets try these feats: Power Attack (1), Furious Focus (1), Weapon Focus (3), Step Up (5), Hammer the Gap (7), Improved Critical (9), Critical Focus (11), Staggering Critical (13), Extra Lay On Hands (15), Stunning Critical (17), Toughness (19).
Hammer the Gap is a munchkin-trap (did the math on that one a week or so ago; you need four hits in a row to average a measly +1pt bonus to damage, five to merely equal WeaponSpec, have a 50% chance to eat a 1 in any seven consecutive d20 rolls, and all of your attacks need to "hammer" the same target or it "resets"...if you're a 20th level paladin, what the heck are you going to be fighting that won't take 400pts of damage if you hit it six times? Would another 1-to-3 per hit make a difference?).
-- stats....imagine you're a rogue, not a paladin. Why pump STR and dump INT if your CHA is to infinity and beyond? Lower STR, jack INT, and have craploads of skillpoints for Bluff, Intimidate and so forth. Demoralize or feint your opponent on the battlefield and he's +2 or better for you to beat on, which is the same difference as STR:16 and STR:20, plus his saves suck too (and your caster buddies appreciate that). And you have lots of points left over for Sense Motive and Use Magic Device (take the Dangerously Curious trait).
Paladins with six or seven skill points/level are scary good at just about everything.
I've also been working on an alternate TWF Shield build that sounds fun to play that goes like this: STR 20, DEX 19, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 16.
Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting (1), Improved Shield Bash (1), Power Attack (3), Step Up (5), Shield Slam (7), Improved Two Weapon Fighting (9), Shield Mastery (11), Greater Two Weapon Fighting (13), Bashing Finish (15), Lightning Reflexes (17), Toughness (19).
Skip the shield and fight with two light extended-threat weapons. When you smite, you'll blow things up in one turn. If you must have a shield, take Quickdraw and use a quickdraw shield.
|
|
Cha base paladin works. Unless you are fighting some one that is nurtral. Then you are dead.How do you figure that? With a STR:14 and a two-hander, your attack is -2/-3 att/dmg behind a fighter's in the BAB1-5 game -- that's going to get you killed while you're tromping around in your plate armor with t!%+-high AC? You're still more destructive and better-armored than most non-fighter PCs.
Cha base paladin dose wonder vs. X enemys per day. After that they are a useless.You mean besides having saves that'll make a monk cry to wish they were his own?When I make paladins: Str>Con>Cha>Dex>Int>Wis
WIS is the correct dump stat.
|
WIS is the correct dump stat.Cha base paladin works. Unless you are fighting some one that is nurtral. Then you are dead.How do you figure that? With a STR:14 and a two-hander, your attack is -2/-3 att/dmg behind a fighter's in the BAB1-5 game -- that's going to get you killed while you're tromping around in your plate armor with t~@+-high AC? You're still more destructive and better-armored than most non-fighter PCs.Cha base paladin dose wonder vs. X enemys per day. After that they are a useless.You mean besides having saves that'll make a monk cry to wish they were his own?When I make paladins: Str>Con>Cha>Dex>Int>Wis
-2 / -3 damage behind a fighter ? At level 1 yes. At level 20 Your looking more like 15 - 20 points lower on avg. hit.
It's not about what hapens when you smite.
It's about what hapens when you can't.
You run out of smite (This hapens if your group dose long work days.)
You face a nutral (This hapens in normal game play.)
|
|
At level 20...
Are you kiddin' me?
By then I'll have a +5/Screwanythingthatmoves weapon, a 128-colors Crayola box full of wands that I UMD all day long with no fail chance, and a flying mount that specializes in leaving flaming pawprints on peoples' shredded faces.
...I couldn't care less if a straight fighter does +20hp vs a barn door when I know his will save is trash and he can't Lay on for 10d6 as a swift-action seventeen times a day.
You face a neutral....
At 20th, paladins get DR10/evil, meaning Mr. Boss Neutral is screwed unless he has an Unholy weapon. Mr. Boss Neutral is probably also an elemental or incorporeal template at that level, which nerf the fighter's level-20 benefit.