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| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Familiar Form (Sp): At 8th level, a beast-bonded witch may take the shape of her familiar (or a giant version of her familiar or a similar kind of animal) as if using beast shape II. For example, a witch with a rat familiar can turn into a Tiny rat, Small dire rat, or a larger rodent; one with a cat familiar can turn into a Tiny cat or a Large feline such as a tiger or lion; one with a monkey familiar can turn into a Tiny monkey or a Large gorilla, and so on. The witch can remain in animal form for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. This ability replaces the witch's 8th-level hex.
so my question: what if you've taken the improved familiar feat, and have a celestial/fiendish familiar? would you gain beast shape II and the celestial/fiendish template?
or if you have an elemental would you gain elemental form II ?
pseudodragon , form of dragon I or II or something similar ?
By RAW, Beast Bonded is fairly incompatiable with Improved Familiars.
You get no bonuses but what you can talk your DM into for this sort of thing.
Part of why I think an Outsider/Fey form line of spells would have been cool, but what can you do?
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By RAW, Beast Bonded is fairly incompatiable with Improved Familiars.
You get no bonuses but what you can talk your DM into for this sort of thing.
Part of why I think an Outsider/Fey form line of spells would have been cool, but what can you do?
Too be perfectly honest by Raw this ability doesn't work. Period.
A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice,
base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Tiny or Large creature of the animal type.
So these two paragraphs state that your familiar is no longer Type=Animal and Beast shape only allows type=animal forms to be assumed. So, by RAW you cannot turn into your own familiar since it specifically states use Beast Shape II to determine what shapes are valid.
This needs a clarification.
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boo. well the whole thing is flawed anyway. Giving up feats to give your critter feats?? thats silly. plus, when determining if your criter qualifies for feats, do you use its actual HD/bab? or the pseudo HD it counts as from being your familiar/your bab ? ( like the +4 bab required for improved natural attack ).
improved familiar : celestial goat,
does it get SR based on its CR 1/3? or does its CR improve as your familiar? does it get resistances equal to its pseudo effective HD ? smite based on its pesudo hd?
otherwise the only thing i can see a celestial/fiendish familiar ever getting is darkvision, resist 5 to a few things, sr 6, and smite (+1 dmg) 1/day.
just statted out an 11th level beast bonded witch's familiar...
it was so underwhelming lol. if the point of the beast-bonded archtype is to improve the effectiveness of the familiar or yourself in mimicing the familiar... it kinda fails spectacularly.
By RAW, Beast Bonded is fairly incompatiable with Improved Familiars.
You get no bonuses but what you can talk your DM into for this sort of thing.
Part of why I think an Outsider/Fey form line of spells would have been cool, but what can you do?
Too be perfectly honest by Raw this ability doesn't work. Period.
A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice,
base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Tiny or Large creature of the animal type.So these two paragraphs state that your familiar is no longer Type=Animal and Beast shape only allows type=animal forms to be assumed. So, by RAW you cannot turn into your own familiar since it specifically states use Beast Shape II to determine what shapes are valid.
This needs a clarification.
The Familiar Form ability states that it lets you take the shape of your familiar, and goes onto explain how it works (Beast Form II to take any eligible form that is of the general kind of animal your familiar represents). So the fact that your familiar itself is now a magical beast doesn't impact this ability; your rat familiar still grants you rodent forms, your cat familiar feline forms, and so on regardless of what type the familiars themselves represent.
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| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The Familiar Form ability states that it lets you take the shape of your familiar, and goes onto explain how it works (Beast Form II to take any eligible form that is of the general kind of animal your familiar represents). So the fact that your familiar itself is now a magical beast doesn't impact this ability; your rat familiar still grants you rodent forms, your cat familiar feline forms, and so on regardless of what type the familiars themselves represent.By RAW, Beast Bonded is fairly incompatiable with Improved Familiars.
You get no bonuses but what you can talk your DM into for this sort of thing.
Part of why I think an Outsider/Fey form line of spells would have been cool, but what can you do?
Too be perfectly honest by Raw this ability doesn't work. Period.
A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice,
base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Tiny or Large creature of the animal type.So these two paragraphs state that your familiar is no longer Type=Animal and Beast shape only allows type=animal forms to be assumed. So, by RAW you cannot turn into your own familiar since it specifically states use Beast Shape II to determine what shapes are valid.
This needs a clarification.
Actually as written the power states:
a beast-bonded witch may take the shape of her familiar (or a giant version of her familiar or a similar kind of animal) as if using beast shape II
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Since it is calling a spell specifically in it's listings as the determiner of what is a legal choice then any limitations on that spell affect this power.As written this power violates the rules as written for the polymorph school in several ways.
1. Beast Shape II cannot take on the shape of a magical creature so no turning into your familiar.
It would however allow you to take on the shape of a creature of the type your familiar was befeore it became your familiar (as long as it's a regular animal type that your familiar was before)
2. Beast Shape II can only assume the form of creatures up to Large sized. There is no Giant size category in the game.
3. The examples leave it completely up to abuse. If you have a monkey familiar you can assume the shape of monkeys OR apes (roughly anything simian ?) so why not use it to turn into a random human ? The difference between a monkey and a great ape is greater then the difference between an ape and a human so why not?
This power just doesn't work the way it's written (and shouldn't to be honest) and CAN actually penalizes you for taking the improved familiar feat.
For example if I take a homonculus (construct) as a familiar and use this to try turn into it what happens? It either fails completely or grants you powers the beast shape II spell can't grant.
By your definition I can turn into a Flesh or Adamantine golem, (both are large-sized constructs similar to a homonculus) even though that is a completely outside of the power of the beast shape II spell.
This needs to be re-written or an errata to explain how in the world this is supposed to work. I'm faq'ing this thread to hopefully get an answer.
Actually this whole archetype is full of these kinds of technical errors. (Don't get me started on the whole twin soul issue)