Amulet of Spell Cunning costs 10,000G and 5,000G to craft. I am not sure of the equation used to design it but I can get a close price by using the command word one charge per day equation :
(spell lvl * caster lvl * 1,800)/(5/charges per day)
which for this item would be:
(4 * 7 * 1,800)/(5/1)= 10,080
The item appears to only grant one use of said spell per day as it grants only 3 levels of spells and only the prepared option of the spell at that. By using a Wizard only spell and requiring the arcane bond feature it is also implying that it is only usable by Wizards.
A Wondrous item craftier can create a functionally identical item via the above equation with the wizard only 30% discount for 7,056G market and 3,528 crafting.
Even if you do not make it wizard only it still only gives you half the options of the original spell and requires your arcane bond item feature so should either have additional benefits or additional discounts. As it stand the item is a rip off for what it does.
Quote: A Wondrous item craftier can create a functionally identical item via the above equation with the wizard only 30% discount for 7,056G market and 3,528 crafting. No, he cant. The rules require you to compare costs to current items before using those item creation rules. Thus, you cannot use those rules to make the item how you'd like, they are a last ditch effort if you cant find a similar item.
Otherwise we'd all have rings of permanent true strike and mage armor for 2k each.
Weables wrote: Quote: A Wondrous item craftier can create a functionally identical item via the above equation with the wizard only 30% discount for 7,056G market and 3,528 crafting. No, he cant. The rules require you to compare costs to current items before using those item creation rules. Thus, you cannot use those rules to make the item how you'd like, they are a last ditch effort if you cant find a similar item.
Otherwise we'd all have rings of permanent true strike and mage armor for 2k each. I have never read a rule that states that the item creation tables are last ditch efforts if an item cannot be found. Item creation feats are numerous and the charts were printed in the core book therefore it must be assumed that we can and will use them.
All items should be able to be broken down using these rules assuming you can figure out the proper equation. It does say that some items may have additional prices added to the cost if they are too powerful. I do want to say that your evidence is bogus though as you have used the wrong equation, or at least did not factor in all variables.
First is your Ring of True Striking:
It would be an item with continuous item thus calculated as though it uses 100 charges a day.
It is also a spell with a duration of a round or less thus you multiply the gold variable by 4.
(Spell lvl * Caster lvl * 2,000(4))/(5/100)
Thus:
(1 * 1 * 8,000)/(.05)
160,000G market cost minimum assuming there is not an unpublished modifier for on next hit spells for your Truestrike ring.
Mage Armor Ring:
Mage armor is a spell that grants Armor bonus in the form of enhancement bonus thus falls under a specifically set of rules for armor bonuses. It's equation is: bonus squared * 1000. This specific rule trumps the standard spell into items rules.
Mage armor give a +4 by default so it would be 16,000G market price for an armor bonus of +4 and happens to be the same price and required spell for the Bracer of AC that provide +4.
Under normal spell in to item rules it would be:
(1 * 1 * 2,000)/(.05)
40,000 Market Price since it is also continuous as the truestrike ring. The specifics of an AC bonus item rule makes it cheaper for you.
Weables wrote: Quote: A Wondrous item craftier can create a functionally identical item via the above equation with the wizard only 30% discount for 7,056G market and 3,528 crafting. No, he cant. The rules require you to compare costs to current items before using those item creation rules. Thus, you cannot use those rules to make the item how you'd like, they are a last ditch effort if you cant find a similar item.
Otherwise we'd all have rings of permanent true strike and mage armor for 2k each. For the Ring of Truestriking you would actually use weapon bonus rules since they would trump standard spell into item rules. The equation is bonus squared * 2,000.
This would be (20*20) * 2,000
800,000G base price.
As such the specific rule makes it more expensive to have a ring of true striking than the standard spell of that level would indicate.
this is why they should have left it the way 2nd edition had it. was so much simpler. you had to have the spell and had to have permancy cast on the item which was 25000gp to do. And it was up to the gm. No craft feats, it was easier to go find an item then to buy it since it was suppose to be rare. The day that 3.0 came out and I read the craft feats I knew they jumped a shark.
I prefer wands anyway, 50charge true strike wand is 750gp... so much easier then getting magic item made.
Tharg The Pirate King wrote: this is why they should have left it the way 2nd edition had it. was so much simpler. you had to have the spell and had to have permancy cast on the item which was 25000gp to do. And it was up to the gm. No craft feats, it was easier to go find an item then to buy it since it was suppose to be rare. The day that 3.0 came out and I read the craft feats I knew they jumped a shark.
I prefer wands anyway, 50charge true strike wand is 750gp... so much easier then getting magic item made.
I played 4.0 for a while and was very glad when my friends started playing pathfinder. 4.0 has limited magic items and item creation so much that the game is almost not fun anymore. Item design was always one of my favorite aspects of 3.5 and pathfinder all the more since I no longer have to pay XP for the items.
Ellessen wrote: Tharg The Pirate King wrote: this is why they should have left it the way 2nd edition had it. was so much simpler. you had to have the spell and had to have permancy cast on the item which was 25000gp to do. And it was up to the gm. No craft feats, it was easier to go find an item then to buy it since it was suppose to be rare. The day that 3.0 came out and I read the craft feats I knew they jumped a shark.
I prefer wands anyway, 50charge true strike wand is 750gp... so much easier then getting magic item made.
I played 4.0 for a while and was very glad when my friends started playing pathfinder. 4.0 has limited magic items and item creation so much that the game is almost not fun anymore. Item design was always one of my favorite aspects of 3.5 and pathfinder all the more since I no longer have to pay XP for the items. but in 2nd you got exp for making the item. They had exp rewards for making an item.
Ellessen wrote: Weables wrote: Quote: A Wondrous item craftier can create a functionally identical item via the above equation with the wizard only 30% discount for 7,056G market and 3,528 crafting. No, he cant. The rules require you to compare costs to current items before using those item creation rules. Thus, you cannot use those rules to make the item how you'd like, they are a last ditch effort if you cant find a similar item.
Otherwise we'd all have rings of permanent true strike and mage armor for 2k each. I have never read a rule that states that the item creation tables are last ditch efforts if an item cannot be found. Here's what he's talking about:
Quote: The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values. And this:
The Rules wrote: Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. Bottom line -- a crafter can't just use the formulae and get whatever item at whatever price it specifies. It's up to the GM to decide how much a magical item costs. There is no set RAW value for any custom item.
The only way to compare an existing item accurately is to deconstruct it's cost via the formulas they have presented us for crafting items. That is what I was attempting to do because I got the idea for an item of Mnemonic Enhancer before I found the Amulet of Spell Cunning and was wondering why the amulet is more limited than the spell and the item I was stating out was a different cost.
My issue after thinking about it is that it is not limited to Wizards explicitly as the spell is and that it does not match their formulas more than it's actually price in gold. It is also really confusing for say a Sorcerer who chose the Arcane Bloodline or any character who took who took the Eldritch Heritage Feat and chose said bloodline.
Interpretations:
1) It is limited to Wizards though it is not stated to be and the price does not indicate that it is.
2) It is not limited to Wizards and grant anyone who can bond it as a bonded item is granted up to 3 levels worth of prepared spells, as it specifically only grants prepared spells. So your Arcane bloodline characters such as sorcerers gain a little bit of prepared spells. Also allowing your charismatic Rogue to gain 3 levels worth of spell casting with the use of a single feat.
3) It is not limited to Wizards but only functions for those who prepare spells. So a charismatic Divine prepared casters can add up to 3 levels of their spells with this item chosen with the proper feat.
4) It is not limited to Wizards but only functions for arcane prepared caster who can choose it so it effectively is only limited to wizards. Wizards are the only arcane prepared spell casters other than Witches who cannot use the Eldritch Heritage feat to gain a bonded item since they already have a familiar and that bloodline feature cannot be use to gain both a familiar and a bonded item.
By not following their own rules they have left it vague, though possibly entertaining for your rogues.
Ellessen wrote: Amulet of Spell Cunning costs 10,000G and 5,000G to craft. I am not sure of the equation used to design it but I can get a close price by using the command word one charge per day equation :
(spell lvl * caster lvl * 1,800)/(5/charges per day)
which for this item would be:
(4 * 7 * 1,800)/(5/1)= 10,080
The item appears to only grant one use of said spell per day as it grants only 3 levels of spells and only the prepared option of the spell at that. By using a Wizard only spell and requiring the arcane bond feature it is also implying that it is only usable by Wizards.
A Wondrous item craftier can create a functionally identical item via the above equation with the wizard only 30% discount for 7,056G market and 3,528 crafting.
Even if you do not make it wizard only it still only gives you half the options of the original spell and requires your arcane bond item feature so should either have additional benefits or additional discounts. As it stand the item is a rip off for what it does.
As repeatedly stated by the developers the crafting rules are more art than science they just give some guidelines that help in the creation of items.
A limitation that is not an actual limitation for the character creating the item should not factor into the item, saying this item is only usable by me is not a limitation but item fluff.
The formulae you used comes close, though you could add 50 gold for the focus component of the spell and the item while a bit more limited bypasses the casting time of the spell of 10 minutes, neither do the spells disappear after 24 hours. Taking that in account it seems a fair estimate of price.
Magus could potentially use the item if they get arcane bond somehow, which they might through eldritch heritage, not a terrible option.
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