Litany of Righteousness + crit = ?

[InsaneFox]

Alright, just started playing an inquisitor and I have a question about Litany of Righteousness (UC 235). It says, "... if the target is evil, it takes double damage...".

Now, if I were to use Named Bullet (UC 238) and almost guarantee a crit while also using bane, would the double damage that the enemy takes be factored after the crit? (IE: 1d8x3 = 3d8 x2 = 6d8)

Could I argue that when damage is halved (using Shield of Swings, for example) the half damage is applied after damage is calculated; meaning the same should apply in regards to damage taken?

Sample situation: Evil guy I'm trying to kill is calmly sipping tea at a gentleman's party. I'm Batman (rolled as an inquisitor10 using a +1 composite longbow of 2 Str) who snuck into the adjacent room. Stealthily, I cast Divine Favor (+3 damage) and start Bane, knowing he's human. I had already cast Named Bullet (+10 damage, touch AC, instacrit) so I kick in the door, call judgement (Dest, +4 damage), cast litany and crit for 6d8+82+4d6 (+102 on a natty.)

[InsaneFox]

(Had to split up post, using PS3 browser)

As a DM, I'd spot rule it as combining multipliers, making it a x4 crit (and doubling all normally non-crit damage)... but I wanted to hear other opinions.

It's still nasty, 4d8+58+4d6. (+98 on a natty.)

Edit: Fixed math. Also assuming +1 because of Point blank shot. Accidentally multiplied the +10 damage from litany

[Fozbek]

Double double = triple, in Pathfinder.

Whenever you're dealing with damage multipliers, add them all up and then subtract 1. That's the actual multiplier. In other words, a x2 and a x2 is (2+2-1)=3. A x3, a x4, and a x2 would end up being x8.

[InsaneFox]

It's more of a semantics issue than anything. Instead of saying "do double damage" it says "double damage taken" which implies that you figure damage, than double it.

It's just an oddly worded spell. I would realistically just make it 4x though.

[Fozbek]

It's still a damage multiplier. All damage multipliers in Pathfinder work off of the base damage, which yields the formula I posted above. A critical hit from a x2 weapon against a creature affected by litany of righteousness rolls the dice and applies flat damage bonuses three times, not four.

[InsaneFox]

Yeah, it's still nasty. Litany of Righteousness would still double the damage that a crit wouldn't. With Named Bullet, a normal bow crit would do 3d8+10 (no modifiers) and 3d8+3 0 on a natural crit. With Litany of Righteousness, would it then do 4d8+20 and 4d8+40 on a natural crit?

[Fozbek]

Yes.

[InsaneFox]

Anyway, I think Litany of Righteousness should be errata'd into something more clearly worded; firstly, on how it affects crits. Maybe even just clarifying that it only adds to the modifier would help. I mean, you act like it's an elementary problem, but wording discrepancies are probably the most commonly errata'd issue there is. It's for the purpose of clarifying these issues that threads like this are made.

Anyway, the other things about this spell that need clarifying are what qualifies as 'attacks made by creatures with a good aura' and how it affects extra damage and extra damage dice (ex: sneak attack, bane, ect.)

[Seraphimpunk]

the spell says it doubles damage taken. not that it increases the weapon multiplier. the spell is effective for 1 round and doubles all the damage taken ( dealt by a [good] aura creature ).

I would calculate the damage, and then double it. It wouldn't change the crit multiplier.

They didn't factor in that you could plan the timing of the 1 round this is in effect, to stack with named bullet so you could plan to have a crit under this effect. it was certainly bound to happen, but more as a happy accident.

I have a TWF sword and board paladin 15. the way i read this, all damage he does vs. an evil dragon will be doubled for 1 round. If i smite him one round and buff, and then cast this and attack the next round, on my first attack i will get +30 vs. the dragon, on my other attacks that hit i will deal +15. of the 5 ( 6 if hasted ) attacks, if i at least land 1 or 2 on this behemoth of an evil dragon, with power attack i do 1d6+17, +30 for the first , +15 for the second. i'm doing max 53 +38 = 91 damage off two non-crit hits. with this spell, i would deal 182 damage.

If i managed to land a crit, i would resolve that as normal, calculate the damage, and when all is said and done, double it. b/c the creature

Quote:

takes double damage

( i just discovered the spell. and want to make sure its working how i read it, before i use it in a fight with a great wyrm blue dragon )

I see it as working like vulnerability to the weapon attack. If a creature with Vulnerability Fire is hit with a scorching ray that crits, you don't say the ray does x3 damage. you say the ray deals double damage on a crit: 8d6, then you mulitply that by 1.5 for the vulnerability.

The spell isn't changing a property of the attackers, its changing how damage is effecting the creature. in essence giving it vulnerability 100% to the attacks of creatures with a Good aura.

[Happler]

Yep, you can think of the spell as "super vulnerability to good".

[Serisan]

Well, glad you mentioned this. I believe I've just found a contender for "highest single shot damage character" now.

Now, to find a consistent way to make a Paladin crit on that one shot like my previous Ronin Samurai build could...

[Seraphimpunk]

conversely, i do agree the spell as written is quite powerful. but spell resistance applies, so there's always the chance it will fail, and you'll roll a few 1's when trying to hit...

[Happler]

Serisan wrote:

Well, glad you mentioned this. I believe I've just found a contender for "highest single shot damage character" now.

Now, to find a consistent way to make a Paladin crit on that one shot like my previous Ronin Samurai build could...

You could up the chance with a falchion, improved critical feat, and bless weapon. Add in a potion of giant growth or other buffs, enjoy.

[drplatonist]

Here's a dumb question. Does Litany of Righteousness double all damage, including damage from other spells and special abilities like Channel Energy, or does it just double weapon damage?

[SwnyNerdgasm]

It wouldn't work for an Inquisitor, because IIRC they don't receive an alignment aura like a paladin would.

[her0zbane]

drplatonist wrote:

Here's a dumb question. Does Litany of Righteousness double all damage, including damage from other spells and special abilities like Channel Energy, or does it just double weapon damage?

Could someone answer this question? My GM is saying that Litany of Righteousness only works on effects that have an attack roll. This means a fireball would not count. Also, when a paladin casts Litany of Righteousness, it last 1 round, does this mean all classes that have the good aura get this advantage for the round?

[Arizhel]

Stand up and cheer you GM, then point him to Energy Resistance. Since fireball is not an attack, you will never be faced with resist or DR again! Also, Invisibility goes away when you attack. If fireball is not an attack, then you can cast invisibility, then throw all the fireballs you want! Woot! Seriously though, it affects Attacks, not Attack Rolls. When they mean attack roll, they use the phrase, 'attack roll'.

Yes, Litany has a duration of 1 round. On the bright side, it is a swift action, so you can cast and take a full attack action.