Can summoners use Aspect and Greater Aspect at the same time?


Rules Questions


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Can my high level summoner use his Aspect and Greater Aspect class abilities at the same time, effectively giving himself 8 evolution points in exchange for his eidolon losing out on 5?

After all, rogue types can benefit from both Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge simultaneously (even though the latter is an "improved" version of the former). Same goes for magi and their Spell Recall and Improved Spell Recall class abilities.

Is there any reason for me to believe the summoner's abilities work any differently?

Liberty's Edge

No. Greater Aspect specifically mentions that it "function as the aspect ability," which makes it the same source of power. Improved/Normal Uncanny Dodge stack because they don't even do the same things and calling the latter version "Improved" is kind-of a misnomer.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

And how do you know that "functions as the aspect ability" is not just a way of saving page space? Otherwise they would have to have a fair amount of redundant text explaining an ability whose function has already (more or less) been described.

In other words: By itself, I don't see how your excerpt disqualifies my interpretation as being potentially valid.


Aspect (Scroll down for the Greater). I would say that they both can be used, on separate evolutions (The points cannot be added together). It is not overpowering and wasn't excluded by the writer of the class in the Greater Aspect description.

Grand Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:

Can my high level summoner use his Aspect and Greater Aspect class abilities at the same time, effectively giving himself 8 evolution points in exchange for his eidolon losing out on 5?

After all, rogue types can benefit from both Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge simultaneously (even though the latter is an "improved" version of the former). Same goes for magi and their Spell Recall and Improved Spell Recall class abilities.

Is there any reason for me to believe the summoner's abilities work any differently?

No... Greater Aspect subsumes the lesser ability. The ability works differently because it's a different ability.


This is weird. I see LazarX's post differently when I'm writing a reply compared to when I'm just viewing the thread. I'm replying to what I see when I view it, which mentions Spell Recall

Spell Recall isn't a relevant comparison, because the Improved Spell Recall ability specifically says "Whenever he recalls a spell with spell recall..." Thus it is a separate ability which triggers when he uses the first. If Greater Aspect said "Whenever the summoner diverts points to himself" or "The summoner can now do _____ when using their Aspect ability", then I'd say that it was just an upgrade. As is, I think it's a separate ability that works in the same manner.


5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Bobson wrote:

This is weird. I see LazarX's post differently when I'm writing a reply compared to when I'm just viewing the thread. I'm replying to what I see when I view it, which mentions Spell Recall

Spell Recall isn't a relevant comparison, because the Improved Spell Recall ability specifically says "Whenever he recalls a spell with spell recall..." Thus it is a separate ability which triggers when he uses the first. If Greater Aspect said "Whenever the summoner diverts points to himself" or "The summoner can now do _____ when using their Aspect ability", then I'd say that it was just an upgrade. As is, I think it's a separate ability that works in the same manner.

I can see it working either way so wondering what one of the developers might say.

Additionally one thing that bugs me is Greater aspect limites you to 6 Evolution Points. Does that mean I can divert 6 points to my Summoner and get 12 points of evolutions or can I only divert 3 points from my eidolons evolution pool and get 6 points for my summoner. Is the 6 point cap refering to the Eidolons evolution points or the number of points the summon gets to spend.


Greater Aspect (Su): At 18th level, a summoner can divert more of his eidolon's evolutions to himself. This ability functions as the aspect ability, but up to 6 evolution points can be taken. Unlike the aspect ability, the eidolon loses 1 point from its evolution pool for every 2 points (or fraction thereof) diverted to the summoner.

I read it as 6 points to the Summoner, 3 points from the Eidolon. (12 Points to the Summoner is too high)


Well it says you can take up to 6 points. And for every points the eidolon loses, so for every point you take from it's pool, you gain 2 points. So I read it as 12 points to the Summoner by taking 6 from the Eidolon. But I also agree 12 is way to high..


Corodix wrote:

Well it says you can take up to 6 points. And for every points the eidolon loses, so for every point you take from it's pool, you gain 2 points. So I read it as 12 points to the Summoner by taking 6 from the Eidolon. But I also agree 12 is way to high..

I agree 12 is a bit high, but by the way it is written you can gain up to 12 points.

Probably should FAQ this so they can clarify the 6 max.


I've always read it as "You can get up to 6 evolution points. For each two you get, the eidolon loses one." Now that it's been pointed out, I can see how the other way of reading it can work.

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