Okay, this may be premature, but I'm hoping that at some point there may be a "Part 7" for the adventure paths.
Not that the current format will change any ... I'm just thinking it would be ever so cool if there was an optional Part 7 to all of the adventure paths that picked up right where Part 6 left off.
In other words, it would implement some of the suggestions for continuing the game that are in the last part. Now, for me, it would be ideal if this carried on to level 20 and beyond, but that's just me. And it would be a great way to support the high level rules set that I have my fingers crossed about.
As I see it, this concept would require no modifications to the existing adventure path format, and definitely shouldn't be part of the existing adventure path subscription ... but I think there's many groups out there that would eat this stuff up.
Like, for example, part 7 of 6 for Carrion Crown ... I'm sure someone out there would like to go just a wee bit farther ...
I'm a huge fan of the way this kind of thing has been done in the past few APs. I like that they have very nice articles with lots a detailed suggestions for where to take your game "after the end". I also like that the specifics are left up to the GM.
It works for me.
I've been doodling with an epilogue to Legacy of Fire, set at least a decade after The Final Wish, where the heroes who defeated Jhavhul are reunited to prevent a powerful cabal of divs and daemons from reawakening Xotani's bones. Begins with the heroes battling Xotani (a surely futile effort that ends with a reveal that it's a just a prophetic vision) and ends with a climactic battle against Ahriman (or at least an avatar of some sort) and Xotani's final destruction in the Plane of Water. No concrete ideas yet, though.
Quite honestly, I think that is a fantastic idea. Since the AP'S always set up possible continuations after part six, why couldn't Paizo pick one of those recommended storylines and comission one or two volume long "optional" modules, which play after the main story has concluded but cover the high levels? Maybe there even could be a poll about which of those "after the BEG was vanquished" storylines could be the one to be continued.
Just throwing this out there. It wouldn't have to impact the AP schedule, but rather be something which stands apart and can be included optionally in the adventure path suscription.
I'm picturing it being a separate subscription, like a "Mythic Adventures" adventure path released twice a year or something, directly in support of the upcoming mythic rules. *
Of course it is. But until James rises from his abode and tells us why it is a bad idea, I'll continue to think that this really sounds good. :)
Agreed- who wouldn't want to dust off that cherished old character after years of retirement, right?
That is a cool idea. I wouldn't mind something like that. On that note I wouldn't mind a few shorter AP's as well. Maybe a short 3 books that explore some small corner of the world.
I think James already said that they are not going to change the AP's general format of six modules per AP. This idea of having an "extra" module, while the normal AP's continue on with the next first module of the new AP, seems to me to be easier to implement than two "half" AP's.
Like, for example, part 7 of 6 for Carrion Crown ... I'm sure someone out there would like to go just a wee bit farther ...
Trust me. You don't want any part of the Vampire Wars.
...or maybe you do? ;-)
That is a cool idea. I wouldn't mind something like that. On that note I wouldn't mind a few shorter AP's as well. Maybe a short 3 books that explore some small corner of the world.I think James already said that they are not going to change the AP's general format of six modules per AP. This idea of having an "extra" module, while the normal AP's continue on with the next first module of the new AP, seems to me to be easier to implement than two "half" AP's.
Right ... that is exactly what I was going for - a way of extending the adventure path model without actually changing it.
The interesting thing is, for most of the adventure paths, part 7 wouldn't actually hit levels above 20 if it began immediatly after part 6 ended. Personally, I'd like to see the last part targeted at the 19-23 range, which would by necessity assume some adventuring between the end of the adventure path and the beginning of part 7.
EDIT
Like, for example, part 7 of 6 for Carrion Crown ... I'm sure someone out there would like to go just a wee bit farther ...Trust me. You don't want any part of the Vampire Wars.
Hell, I was thinking of Wake of the Watcher and/or Dungeons of Golarion, but I'll take the Vampire Wars, sure :)
I'd love to see, at the end of each adventure path, a book 7 of 6 that has information just like you asked but more.
This "Extras" book would be additional material for those who want it for any AP they run. Some GMs like to buy the first book and run with it before the whole thing is out. Nothing wrong with that! Others like to wait. It will take a lot of the creative ideas us GMs have come up with on the boards and have them in a publishable format.
This is an idea of what I'd like to see in book 7 of 6 of APs.
- Deleted Scenes - Encounters and ideas that were cut from the APs for space reasons. Expand on playing past the AP. Also, extra content from the boards (Swallowtail festival games, expanded kingdom buildings etc).
- Bigger groups - Advice for modifying the AP for bigger parties. (6+ people)
- Errata/Updates - fixes to some stat-blocks, tactics, maps, etc. Updating NPCs to new classes/archetypes.
- Advice - GMing advice for how to handle different fights. (For example- offer insight to how to handle the end of book 2 of the Rise of the Runelords AP)
- Customization ideas - Provide insight into supplementing modules into the AP or books from other APs into the AP that would work well.
- Outtakes - Funny stories from playtesting, story-lines that didn't pan-out, Unused artwork.
I can understand some reasons why they don't do this (e.g do I really want to make sanity checks to understand some developer's thoughts on an encounter?), but at the same time it allows GMs to be creative and lazy at the same time! I see this book as a catalyst for GMs to play-through an AP all over again. Perhaps with a different style or approach, even. I see it as a way to only augment paizo's bread-and-butter and introduce a lot more replayability.
I'd love to see, at the end of each adventure path, a book 7 of 6 that has information just like you asked but more....This "Extras" book would be additional material for those who want it for any AP they run. Some GMs like to buy the first book and run with it before the whole thing is out. Nothing wrong with that! Others like to wait. It will take a lot of the creative ideas us GMs have come up with on the boards and have them in a publishable format.
Are you familiar at all with Legendary Games? A few third-party publishers are already creating additional support material for the APs. We're just getting started, but you might want to keep an eye out for it. AP plug-in's include everything from new magic items and pregen PCs to side trek adventures and companion pieces. Might be right up your alley, even if we don't currently have plans for a part 7 of 6 type of book.
I was aware of some 3rd party support (JBE's Book of the River Nations). However I have not had heard of Legendary Games. Thank you!
I see the selection is bountiful for Carrion Crown and including gothic elements into any campaign, but I am looking more for even greater Kingmaker support and Rise of the Runelords support. That being said, the approach and supplements you are providing are exactly the type of material I like to see.
I see the selection is bountiful for Carrion Crown and including gothic elements into any campaign, but I am looking more for even greater Kingmaker support and Rise of the Runelords support.
Never fear. We have plans to provide support for both the newer and older APs. That's because Paizo adventure paths have pretty good staying power. They do span the entire adventuring career of most PCs, after all. And, for a lot of gaming groups, they've got multiple APs still sitting on the shelves waiting to be played after they finish their current campaigns. So, we've got plenty of time to get out new material for Kingmaker and Rise of the Runelords.
Fear? Please. I'm a Paladin(tm). I am looking forward to hearing about your future material. Thanks again, good sir.
Well, I re-iterate my vote for "+1" ( or even +2, to get to 20th level ) modules, be they now from Paizo or other publishers. :p
I see the selection is bountiful for Carrion Crown and including gothic elements into any campaign, but I am looking more for even greater Kingmaker support and Rise of the Runelords support.Never fear. We have plans to provide support for both the newer and older APs. That's because Paizo adventure paths have pretty good staying power. They do span the entire adventuring career of most PCs, after all. And, for a lot of gaming groups, they've got multiple APs still sitting on the shelves waiting to be played after they finish their current campaigns. So, we've got plenty of time to get out new material for Kingmaker and Rise of the Runelords.
Were there any more plans - which I think you mentioned as half an idea in the original thread - for tie in material to Serpent's Skull, specifically City of Seven Spears? It's probably the most underwritten (in terms of the amount of GM work) installment of recent months, and any extra material would be an incredible boon.
Were there any more plans - which I think you mentioned as half an idea in the original thread - for tie in material to Serpent's Skull, specifically City of Seven Spears? It's probably the most underwritten (in terms of the amount of GM work) installment of recent months, and any extra material would be an incredible boon.
Pretty much all of the APs have the potential for extra tie-in material. Some more than others. The challenge for us is picking and choosing which to do first. Here in the early going, we decided to target Carrion Crown since it would give people the opportunity to immediately use some of our stuff. It's taken a bit longer to get the products out than we wanted, though. So, some people may already be pretty deep into CC by the time these extra side-trek adventures and supporting articles come out.
Looking ahead, Jade Regent seems to make a lot of sense for us to pursue as well...again, because it's just picking up steam. And, it makes sense to release products like our pregen PCs in tandem with the first issue of the AP. That said, we don't want to get too far ahead of Paizo's release schedule on these things. It wouldn't be good to duplicate something in our plans for support material that Paizo has already commissioned in a support article of their very own. And, though most of us also write for these APs, we don't have insight into everything that gets included in each issue ahead of time. Thus, we have a bit of a wait-and-see element to our own brainstorming to determine what an existing AP needs the most.
So, to your point, looking back and retroactively producing tie-in material for popular APs like Kingmaker, Serpent's Skull, etc. makes perfect sense for us. Those are all pretty much self-contained and "complete"...so, it's easier for us to plan out our AP plug-ins for them. Keep in mind that I'm only one voice within Legendary Games. We all have our own schedules to keep (as we're all still writing for Paizo, Frog God Games, etc.). Even so, it's my hope that we tackle these AP plug-in's with a two-pronged strategy.
1) New stuff for the APs that are just coming out (like CC and JR), striking while the iron is hot, basically...and yet, still waiting until about halfway through the AP's release schedule before going too far down the rabbit hole of product planning, just to make sure we don't duplicate something Paizo is already including in the campaign.
2) New stuff for the APs that are already done, starting with some of the most popular or "most in need" of tie-in material to either freshen them up or help round them out where they might have had some rough edges. One thing to keep in mind with these products is that we want to take advantage of any updates Paizo might be doing for the APs that predated the Pathfinder RPG. So, something like the anniversary edition of RotRL would be a good time to revisit that AP...but only after we've got a sense for what Paizo might be doing in terms of new material for their hardcover compilation. After all, if we're asked to write for that product, some of the ideas we might have used for Legendary Games could very well wind up in the official Paizo product instead.
Anyway, that's probably more than you cared to know. Suffice to say, we're very aware of which APs are "crying out" for this kind of stuff. We'll certainly target those in the hopes that it generates the maximum possible interest in the AP plug-ins, because that's their exact purpose.
Another two cents,
--Neil
Thanks Neil, that's actually very insightful in terms of helping me understand the thinking behind the schedule and products. It all makes perfect sense, and it's good to hear that the previous AP's (including Serpent's Skull) are still very much at the front of Legendary's thinking in terms of support material and plug ins. Obviously I'm just as excited to see what's in store for the upcoming APs - the Carrion Crown stuff already looks to be a 'must buy.'
(I have bookmarked Legendary Games site, Neil. I am currently more interested about Kingmaker stuff, but I will check you regularly).
Cool. Kingmaker is pretty high up the list. Lisa Stevens herself is running a Kingmaker campaign and she's brought up the fact that she could use some additional material from us, as well. So, you're in good company! ;-)