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Given that Gencon is wrapping up, has there been any news or reveals?
Edit: Found this - looks like FFG got it
http://www.starwars.com/games/othergames/fantasyflight_starwars/index.html
Yup, go and read the FFG website, so far they announced a cardgame or two (the second one being Xwing). They have not announced anything else, but rpg's are included in the license so that'll be in the works. And since they're also a big time boardgame maker, expect to see a few of those too.
having played Star Wars rpg's since West End's 1st edition, and on through wotc's various incarnations, I am wondering how they are going to do their RPG.
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My suspicion is that FFG will do their Star Wars RPG(s,?) like they do their 40K and WHFRP RPGs.
* Absolutely jaw dropping asthetics and production values.
* Absolutely jaw dropping editing failures.
In all seriousness, their pedigree goes back far longer than their current release schedule credits them for, in particular fan favorite d20 settings Midnight and Dawnforge and the prolific Legends and Lairs supplements.
I think the RPG is in good hands. I'm hopeful maybe they will leverage the OpenD6 movement and bring us back to a best of WEG-era again, but I believe I am in the minority.
Regardless, looking forward to what they do.
it would be neat to see an updated d6 version of star wars. with opend6, do you still face the bucket of dice syndrome?
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with opend6, do you still face the bucket of dice syndrome?
Basically it went:
WEG Star Wars D6 -> WEG D6 Space/Adventure/Fantasy -> Open D6So, yes, if you didn't like the prospect of picking up 12D then you'll face the same dislike with Open D6.
Me personally, I loved bucket o' dice rolling with a wild die. It had some scaling issues, but I just loved the sound of all those dice hitting the table.
I hope they use the Warhammer 40k Engine its alot of fun and can work with Jedi and all the other types of characters in the Star wars universe
with opend6, do you still face the bucket of dice syndrome?Basically it went:
WEG Star Wars D6 -> WEG D6 Space/Adventure/Fantasy -> Open D6So, yes, if you didn't like the prospect of picking up 12D then you'll face the same dislike with Open D6.
Me personally, I loved bucket o' dice rolling with a wild die. It had some scaling issues, but I just loved the sound of all those dice hitting the table.
Our solution to the bucket of dice was this:
Anytime you had a skill over 10d, you could subtract 10d from the dice pool, and take the average for the 10d (35), adding modifiers after the averaging. When rolling the wild die, if it came up 5 or 6, you add 10 to the average roll, and then keep rolling as normal. if the wild die came up another 6, you added another 10 to the average, up to the maximum of 60.
and I LOVED the Han Solo Corporate Sector sourcebook. Best fast draw rules i've ever seen.
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Anytime you had a skill over 10d, you could subtract 10d from the dice pool, and take the average for the 10d (35), adding modifiers after the averaging. When rolling the wild die, if it came up 5 or 6, you add 10 to the average roll, and then keep rolling as normal. if the wild die came up another 6, you added another 10 to the average, up to the maximum of 60.
Was that in the Gamemaster guide? I seem to remember a system that talked about doing something like that, but it's been a while since I've dug into the collection for much more than the core book and the tramp freighters sourcebook.
The thing I loved most about buckets of dice was that it tied to doing more in a round with character. Wanted to shoot once and dodge? take some dice away. shoot three times and dodge? just more dice ...
I really like that balance between garaunteed success and doing more.
that was a rule we came up with ourselves, but if it was later in a book somewhere, great minds think alike! :)
yeah, d6 is awesome in its versatility. I especially also liked the starship combat rules. i still haven't found anything i like as much as those old d6 star wars rules.
now i am seriously thinking about running d6 again. I think my kids would get a kick out of it, and it is simple enough i think for my 5 year old (he runs marvel ultimate alliance on his pc, and can even program his own WoW macros as long as I write the emote on paper for him, lol) and my 9 year old to play, and then i could let my 3 year old roll dice for me just like when we play Pathfinder ( i usually let him LARP a bit when we play, until the combat starts, then he turnsd into the Hulk and smashes the enemies, lol).
Oh man, i so want to run a tramp ship again. Why, oh why did i sell my Platt's guides? lament, lament, and oh death! lol
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I've been rebuilding my collection myself - this will be the 3rd time now. I know where I lost the first collection, the second is still a mystery though I have my suspects.
NobleKnight games seems to get them in on a regular basis, though sometimes their prices are a bit questionable depending on 'rarity'.
I don't really know that much about Fantasy Flight beyond Arkham Horror, are all their products "Hey, I'll start setting up, you guys come back in an hour so we can play."?
I just started a Saga Edition game that is going...well. But the system is clunky as all heck and doesn't feel very heroic at times due to the MASSIVE DAMAGE the enemies put out and the total lack of real healing options.
Plus the rules are spread out across SO MANY books. But we have all of them, so that's fun. Ultimately I think I prefer SWD6 from my 1 session I played of it (It was just easier to make my character concept work in d6 than it is in d20). I'll be interested to see how a new system changes things.
I don't really know that much about Fantasy Flight beyond Arkham Horror, are all their products "Hey, I'll start setting up, you guys come back in an hour so we can play."?
I just started a Saga Edition game that is going...well. But the system is clunky as all heck and doesn't feel very heroic at times due to the MASSIVE DAMAGE the enemies put out and the total lack of real healing options.
Plus the rules are spread out across SO MANY books. But we have all of them, so that's fun. Ultimately I think I prefer SWD6 from my 1 session I played of it (It was just easier to make my character concept work in d6 than it is in d20). I'll be interested to see how a new system changes things.
I'm not disputing what occurs in your games, but your statement about "massive damage" output of bad guys piques my interest. My group has been playing Saga Edition since it was released; we have two independent campaigns, one is Jedi only, the other is non-Jedi only.
In the years we've been playing the one thing I haven't seen is "massive damage" output....from anyone. But hands down the heroes are the ones doing more. We almost never see anyone drop on the condition monitor, even mooks. They almost always die first. (Granted, it's a bit different in the Jedi game because many force powers cause or increase condition monitor movement.)
I don't really know that much about Fantasy Flight beyond Arkham Horror, are all their products "Hey, I'll start setting up, you guys come back in an hour so we can play."?
I just started a Saga Edition game that is going...well. But the system is clunky as all heck and doesn't feel very heroic at times due to the MASSIVE DAMAGE the enemies put out and the total lack of real healing options.
Plus the rules are spread out across SO MANY books. But we have all of them, so that's fun. Ultimately I think I prefer SWD6 from my 1 session I played of it (It was just easier to make my character concept work in d6 than it is in d20). I'll be interested to see how a new system changes things.
I'm not disputing what occurs in your games, but your statement about "massive damage" output of bad guys piques my interest. My group has been playing Saga Edition since it was released; we have two independent campaigns, one is Jedi only, the other is non-Jedi only.
In the years we've been playing the one thing I haven't seen is "massive damage" output....from anyone. But hands down the heroes are the ones doing more. We almost never see anyone drop on the condition monitor, even mooks. They almost always die first. (Granted, it's a bit different in the Jedi game because many force powers cause or increase condition monitor movement.)
Perhaps it is the nature of all of us being new to the system, or the GM having never GM'd anything before (I'm usually the group's primary GM), or perhaps because we're only level 3, but I find my character's survivability to be somewhat unnerving. He's the beefiest of the group and was very nearly one shot by force-choke.
Plus, blasters doing 3d6 of damage when 3d6 is generally how much health the party actually has. I have a strong feeling the curve swoops significantly once we level a time or two more.
Perhaps it is the nature of all of us being new to the system, or the GM having never GM'd anything before (I'm usually the group's primary GM), or perhaps because we're only level 3, but I find my character's survivability to be somewhat unnerving. He's the beefiest of the group and was very nearly one shot by force-choke.Plus, blasters doing 3d6 of damage when 3d6 is generally how much health the party actually has. I have a strong feeling the curve swoops significantly once we level a time or two more.
I'd want to see the math on that. A DC15 Force Grip used to Choke, with a Force Point spent, is doing 4D6 damage, for an average of 16 points. Since a 1st level Jedi or Soldier starts with 30 HP plus modifiers, and a 3rd Level character will have an average of 42 HP plus modifiers, I suspect something was wrong, there.
IF, and that's a big IF, the opposing Force User hit a DC25 on Force Grip, AND blew a Force Point for an extra 2D6, you'd be looking at 8D6, or roughly 32 points of damage - a lot, but still not enough to take down an average-HP character in anything approaching one shot. You'd be hurting, and moved waaaaayyy down the condition track, but still in the fight.
Hmm...
Since you put it that way, I think my GM and I need to have a chat.
Hmm...
Since you put it that way, I think my GM and I need to have a chat.
Force Grip, Page 97, Star Wars Saga Core Rule Book.
And that should say "32 points of damage on average," up there, my apologies for not stating that.
But yes, you and your GM need to have a chat. Unless he's (assuming your GM is a he) is using some other power from some other book, something is most assuredly up.
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My suspicion is that FFG will do their Star Wars RPG(s,?) like they do their 40K and WHFRP RPGs.
* Absolutely jaw dropping asthetics and production values.
* Absolutely jaw dropping editing failures.
* You forgot Absolutely jaw dropping prices.
I am not optimistic. I tried their new WHFRP and it was far to close to 4e for my tastes. There were also annoying ommisions - elves are the greatest magic users in the world, but you can only play a human magic user. That may have been rectified in the subsequent 20 products, but I don't have $1,500 to spend to make a coherent game out of it.
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* You forgot Absolutely jaw dropping prices.I am not optimistic. I tried their new WHFRP and it was far to close to 4e for my tastes. There were also annoying ommisions - elves are the greatest magic users in the world, but you can only play a human magic user. That may have been rectified in the subsequent 20 products, but I don't have $1,500 to spend to make a coherent game out of it.
Ya - I was actually hoping that they might price them to be more in line with their mainstream demand, but you're right, FFG in general has a pretty premium price point.
I skipped WHFRP3rd for the same reason, as much as I love looking at the gear, and even read through the materials, I just can't justify the expense of the product line.
I'd want to see the math on that. A DC15 Force Grip used to Choke, with a Force Point spent, is doing 4D6 damage, for an average of 16 points. Since a 1st level Jedi or Soldier starts with 30 HP plus modifiers, and a 3rd Level character will have an average of 42 HP plus modifiers, I suspect something was wrong, there.
IF, and that's a big IF, the opposing Force User hit a DC25 on Force Grip, AND blew a Force Point for an extra 2D6, you'd be looking at 8D6, or roughly 32 points of damage - a lot, but still not enough to take down an average-HP character in anything approaching one shot. You'd be hurting, and moved waaaaayyy down the condition track, but still in the fight.
See, that's the problem with the Force (and why we have two campaigns: with and without), the Force Gripper is trained in UTF, has a +2 to +4 Cha mod, and let's say he is 4th level (BBEG for 3rd level Heroes). But wait, since EVERYONE who uses the Force has Skill Focus (UTF), he gets another +5. That is minimum +14 and as much as +16 to UTF checks. So ON AVERAGE the Force Gripper is hitting 24 to 26, and he cannot fail a UTF check!
See, that's the problem with the Force (and why we have two campaigns: with and without), the Force Gripper is trained in UTF, has a +2 to +4 Cha mod, and let's say he is 4th level (BBEG for 3rd level Heroes). But wait, since EVERYONE who uses the Force has Skill Focus (UTF), he gets another +5. That is minimum +14 and as much as +16 to UTF checks. So ON AVERAGE the Force Gripper is hitting 24 to 26, and he cannot fail a UTF check!
That's not the problem, though. The problem is that the GM is clearly throwing around damage that shouldn't be getting thrown around.
Yeah, a 4th Level Dark Side Jedi with a +3 CHA mod, Skill Training (+5), Skill Focus (+5) and who is 4th Level (+2), will have a +15 to the roll - which is pretty rad. But your BBEG isn't going to have a lot in the way of powers, Talents, or Feats (You'll have two talents and one non-starter feat) - especially given the fact that for some ridiculously inexplicable reasons, the Jedi don't get Force Training as a Bonus Feat. (A problem I solved by giving the Jedi Force Training at 1st Level, and allowing it as a Bonus Feat, but I digress)
So while the BBEG in the above mentioned campaign could do that, it would make him little more than a one-trick pony, unless there was some seriously creative crap going on there with his build.
Star Wars SAGA is paradoxically a system which gets more balanced the higher the level is. Suddenly the big skill modifiers of UtF are not that scary anymore.
In any case, as someone who has GM'ed it some time, I recommend not allowing Skill Focus: UtF until level six.
As for the topic of the thread, I haven't really heard good things about the balance of the WH40K RPG, so consider me skeptical. Also, I own all the Saga D20 books, so I am not about to buy a whole set of completely new rules, unless everybody says they are super good.
My suspicion is that FFG will do their Star Wars RPG(s,?) like they do their 40K and WHFRP RPGs.
* Absolutely jaw dropping asthetics and production values.
* Absolutely jaw dropping editing failures.* You forgot Absolutely jaw dropping prices.
I think a part of that is Games workshop driving prices up look at all Games Workshop products and their products from other companies are very high priced
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I think a part of that is Games workshop driving prices up look at all Games Workshop products and their products from other companies are very high priced
FFG's RPG products have always been pricy.
Grimm was $50-60
Anima was $60-70
Dawnforge and Midnight were both in the realm of $60
Their boardgames aren't out of the realm of $100. They are a premium priced company, always have been.
And from another company, Pathfinder hardcovers are $40-50, sell very well and seem to be worth the cost.
So if FFG expects good sales and does not do a small print run that would require the high prices listed by VagrantWhisper, then a new SW system should not be priced higher than the Pathfinder stuff.
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I'm actually less worried about the individual price, and more worried about the potential aggregate price.
If they take the 40K RPG model (of which, don't get me wrong, I own every book from every line, so I'm a willing investor) then that means we'll have, at the least:
1 rulebook + supplements + adventures for the Sith/Old Republic era
1 rulebook + supplements + adventures for the classic era
1 rulebook + supplements + adventures for the legacy era
... etc ...
With 7 canon publishing eras, that adds up to a lot of books.
Needless to say, I'm really hopefully that we'll see a strong Core Rule book (yes, even an expensive one) with sourcebooks (the traditional RPG model) and not the 'need a new bookshelf' model.
I might be wrong, but I don't recall Dark Heresy being particularly expensive. WFRP 3e, on the other hand...
Unless you happen to be interested in Rogue Traders. Or Space Marines. Or Chaos. Then you get to buy a $60 core book for each of those.
I love my 40k RPG books, but they are a tad more expensive per page count than anything from Paizo or WotC. And they have a habit of spreading the content among many books. Like having a 'Foes' style book for each of their systems that you need to get all of them for good coverage.
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I might be wrong, but I don't recall Dark Heresy being particularly expensive. WFRP 3e, on the other hand...
Ya -as Deinol mentioned, Dark Heresy in itself isn't expensive, but the 40K RPG line as a whole is.
You're talking on average 1 or 2 hardcovers per month if you collect all the lines. $60 or so for the core books, $40 or $50 for sourcebooks depending on page count, and $25 for adventures.