Using Scent

[Yora]

The scent ability only says that a creature with scent can notice creatures within 30 feet.

But what information does a creature gain in such a situation? Automatically being aware of every single creature in a 30 feet radius is obviously not the intended effect. I think some kind of Perception check would be called for.
The base DC for a Perception check to notice something that is not hidden is 0, but that would be awefully low. At 30 feet, you'd get a +3 to the Perception DC, and I would say just walking along the road without paying much attention to your environment would count as "being distracted", for another +5. But that would still be just a DC 8 check, which easily means automatic success even at 1st level. So could a character with scent ever be suprised in an encounter?

I say an appropriate piece of information would be "there is someone else nearby". In an urban environment, that would be useful information because there are people nearby all the time, so it wouldn't be anythin interesting.

What are your thoughts on this?
I'm considering creating a PC race with the scent ability, but being able to warn the party any time there is someone around the next corner would be a bit too much I think?

[Ingenwulf]

It does get tricky when the GM wants a little invisibilty fun. I'd also be interested in how other guys run/use and handle scent, especially because I now have a Bear Shamen in the party.

[Allia Thren]

Dogs and other scent-oriented animals can pick out the scent of a single human out of a crowd.

So I wouldn't be surprised if my smell they can pretty much "see" how many people are around them. However you could say determing the number of different scents requires a move action, just like determing the direction of a specific scent. But I don't think theres a rule on it.

Also, if they know someone's scent they should be immediately aware that "Person XY is close".

[Blave]

Scent is a VERY powerful ability. The only ways to counter it would be staying at great distance (>30 ft) or somehow negating it with magic or overpowering your own scent with a stronger one. Being ethereal or incorporeal would probably help, too.

If none of those ways can be used, than yes, a creature with scent automatically knows the presence of any creature within 30 ft. Still doesn't mean one can automatically determine taht there's an enemy in a crowd of people (unless one knows his scent already) but it's very likely to spoil any form of ambush or suprise attack in a dungeon or the woods.

If I ever play an Half-Orc with 13+ wisdom, Keen Scent will definitely be my 1stlevel feat.

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

Enemies could also approach from downwind, reducing the scent range to 15 ft.

That's close enough for an ambush.

[BigNorseWolf]

Yora wrote:

The scent ability only says that a creature with scent can notice creatures within 30 feet.

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But what information does a creature gain in such a situation?

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

So by raw they get about the same information as they would from seeing the creature. If they've seen drow they know its a drow. If they've seen Zik'ticnalick cliz zfnerbirblinburble beheader of babies then they know that Zik'ticnalick cliz zfnerbirblinburble beheader of babies is nearby.

Quote:

Automatically being aware of every single creature in a 30 feet radius is obviously not the intended effect. I think some kind of Perception check would be called for.

And yet its not. There's no rule for trying to hide in a crowd. It wouldn't be unreasonable to add one in, but by raw scent tells stealth to take its beating and ask for more.

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What are your thoughts on this?

_that its against raw. Raw might need a nerf, but you're taking the nerf hammer to it kind of hard.

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I'm considering creating a PC race with the scent ability, but being able to warn the party any time there is someone around the next corner would be a bit too much I think?

Its a reaaaaaly powerful ability.

[Yora]

[url]http://pauljenkins.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Crowd-702052.jpg[/url]
But suppossed I know one of these people. Humans are extremely sight dependant, but just seeing all those people together does not automatically allow me to detect a specific face I know.
I don't know how animals tell multiple scents aparts, but I think automatic success is not guaranteed.

But then, this would probably fall under "terrible conditions", though a +5 to the Perception DC is not much.

Sometimes when I came back from school and my mother was walking the dog, the dog would recognize me and come running at distances where I wasn't able to recognize them by sight (ca. 250m). Though I'm not sure if she would detect me by smell and she'd be very well used to my scent.
Assigning a base DC for Perception through scent is probably not that easy, but for a racial feature at 1st level, I think a base DC of 10 might work well.

[Roaming Shadow]

To answer if you can surprise someone with scent, the answer is yes. Have an enemy or two open up combat with a ranged weapon. Odds are they'll be outside that 30ft range, and so get the shot/s off undetected as part of a surpsise round.

Also, just because you know somebody's close, it doesn't necessarily mean you know they're an enemy. Sure, in an isolated environment like a dungeon or the woods, if you catch wind of someone that isn't in your party you'll be on alert, but in a city, unless the party has faced a particular mook before (and didn't kill him/her then), then they wouldn't be able to pick him out of a crowd, and so a group could sneak up on the PCs in the market and attempt something (it'd likely be Bluff vs Sense Motive to figure out the groups intentions if they were being subtle).

On a more subtle front, shapeshifters can really screw around with scent I believe. Say you have a pack of werewolves tailing a group in wolf form. Lycanthropes can be of any CR, as they're templates and humanoids are easy to CR adjust. The person with scent smells wolves close by. Closer than they should be perhaps, but they're level 10; wolves are no threat. Or better yet, at high levels, who's going to really give a mind if there are a few dire rats in the sewers; they pose no threat. Heck, the smell of sewage could easily overpower the scent of any individuals that may be lurking in the sewer. Or an area of extremely potent pollen in the woods. Or some noxious molds in the caves. Just make sure that you're not going out of your way to negate scent; nobody likes having their cool ability nullified all the time. These suggestion are just tools to show that there are things out there that can defeat scent that you can use sparringly.

It's harder to catch someone with scent off guard, but not as difficult as you might think. Also, just because you know someone is close, the default scent cannot pinpoint the source of a smell unless it's adjacent to them. Spending a move action will only tell them the general direction of the source.

[Blave]

Yora wrote:

Assigning a base DC for Perception through scent is probably not that easy, but for a racial feature at 1st level, I think a base DC of 10 might work well.

Well, by RAW, there is no Perception check. It's really that simple. Everything you want to add to the RAW is fine, but a houserule.

[Allia Thren]

There's no perception check to see someone that's standing 10 ft away from you. You might not pay attention to him, but you are aware that the guy is there.
If that guy is hiding behind a tree, or a bush, or is invisible or otherwise not obviously visible at first glance, you get a perception check to notice him anyway with your eyes.

Scent is different though. Just because you don't see someone doesn't mean they're not stinking the place up.
IF they take countermeasures to also disguise their body odor, like using perfume to smell like something else, then I'd say you get a perception check to notice "Wait, that squirrel doesn't smell like a squirrel". But if they don't do that, than essentially thats the equivalent of "standing infront of you in the middle of the road, waving and shouting at you"