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Unless otherwise noted, damage bonuses like that would only apply once per attack, similar to the Evoker Wizards ability. So it would only apply to 1 Scorching Ray, but to every target affected by Fireball.
Unless otherwise noted, damage bonuses like that would only apply once per attack, similar to the Evoker Wizards ability. So it would only apply to 1 Scorching Ray, but to every target affected by Fireball.
The Evoker's ability explicitly says it only applies once per attack, so the case is actually the opposite of what you just said. Unless otherwise noted, you can add the bonus damage to each attack.
Go ahead and add the damage to each scorching ray.
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If you are an orc sorcerer, and take advantage of the orc racial feature (+1 damage/2 levels), how exactly is it implemented?
Fireball and the other area spells are pretty easy to figure.
But what about scorching ray? Say you are a 12th level sorcerer and get 3 rays with scorching ray. You aim two at one target, and one at another.
The orc feature would give +6 for fire damage. But is it applied to both rays at the first target, and also to the single ray at the other target?
Just to a single ray. Each ray is considered independent, requiring its own attack roll, regardless of being directed at the same target of a previous ray (see Intense Spell for Evokers).
In your example, the bonus is applied to one of the two directed at the first target.The second question I have about this is in regards to acid arrow. If you have one of the arcana that let's you change energy damage to flame damage, and make it a "burning arrow," does the orc racial damage occur every round? Or just the first round?
The evokers intense spell feature specifically says it only applies once per spell, but there is nothing like this listed for the racial feature (kind of goofy, since the intense spell feature favors area effect spells).
So has anything been put out officially on this? I tend to think the damage should apply to the individual ray not on a single ray, and that the damage recurs every round.
Given that spells that inflict recurring energy damage are not all that common, I'd go with the larger application of the ability, so yes the fire damage bonus recurs every round.
This should apply to spells modified by an appropriate metamagic feat that allows for recurring energy damage (if such a feat exists), just 'cause I'd rather reward a player that invests that much into a thematic spellcaster - as a DM I can always use fire resistant/immune creatures to annoy a power gamer to death.|
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Hmmm thanks for the feedback. I was hoping that some of the paizo people had said somewhere "oh this is how it works."
Not that I recall. However, this could be a bad moment for asking "official rulings", you know, with all the GenCon madness currently going on.
Maybe try to bump the topic next week or so.
Does intense spell say only once per spell? Yes.
Does the sorcs favored class bonus say once per spell? No.
It affects all rays.
Unless otherwise noted, damage bonuses like that would only apply once per attack, similar to the Evoker Wizards ability. So it would only apply to 1 Scorching Ray, but to every target affected by Fireball.The Evoker's ability explicitly says it only applies once per attack, so the case is actually the opposite of what you just said. Unless otherwise noted, you can add the bonus damage to each attack.
Go ahead and add the damage to each scorching ray.
This runs counter to how 3.5 works. . . and it's pretty clear that PF hasn't really changed due to the Evoker ability's wording.
There really wasn't a need to reprint the same text in the APG.
Does intense spell say only once per spell? Yes.
Does the sorcs favored class bonus say once per spell? No.
It affects all rays.
So, if everything must be explicitly said with no common sense, then the spell never gets cast. No breathing is dictated in the rules, so therefore the character suffocates.
Unless otherwise noted, damage bonuses like that would only apply once per attack, similar to the Evoker Wizards ability. So it would only apply to 1 Scorching Ray, but to every target affected by Fireball.
Correct.
Unless otherwise noted, damage bonuses like that would only apply once per attack, similar to the Evoker Wizards ability. So it would only apply to 1 Scorching Ray, but to every target affected by Fireball.
Do you have a rules source for this? Or even an unofficial developer post?
Without one or the other, I'd say that you add the bonus damage each time you deal fire damage. It's certainly easier to adjudicate that way.
Just think of it simply -- once per spell, you can add the given damage output (typically part of a damage roll).
So if 1 orc hits you 50 times with fire shield on, he gets the additional damage added once (on the first hit).
If 50 orcs hit you once, the first orc gets hit by the damage, but all the other orcs do not get hit by the additional damage.
Needless to say, fire shield isn't an optimal use of additional spell damage.
Or do you lose out on the possibility of inflicting extra damage like if you had missed with a scorching ray?
If scorching ray doesn't hit, it doesn't deal damage. So if you miss with the first ray, you don't lose the bonus. If the second ray hits, it deals the additional damage.
With wall of fire, it can deal two different sources of damage (fire damage from being in the "wall" and heat coming from the wall) -- but those can be simultaneous. In that case, the damage is applied once at that time across the board. So if my sorcerer casts wall of fire and two bad guys are in the effect as well as two in the heat areas, they all get the extra damage applied. But if someone later walks through the wall, they don't get the extra damage. It was only applied once.
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Meabolex is speaking of a house rule. RAW is clear as can be. There are absolutely no limits on how often the extra damage occurs, and absolutely no text in the favored class ability to even imply that it's only applied once per spell. To even imply that it's an oversight would mean the designer over looked the second most iconic fire spell in the game, something I find preposterous.
Half-orc sorcerers don't have intense spell. Using another classes ability to argue how a sorcerers ability works is extremely weak, at best.
Meabolex is speaking of a house rule. RAW is clear as can be. There are absolutely no limits on how often the extra damage occurs, and absolutely no text in the favored class ability to even imply that it's only applied once per spell. To even imply that it's an oversight would mean the designer over looked the second most iconic fire spell in the game, something I find preposterous.
Half-orc sorcerers don't have intense spell. Using another classes ability to argue how a sorcerers ability works is extremely weak, at best.
The "house rule", which is clearly defined from 3.5, is that all additional damage from any source (sneak attack, additional damage, etc), is added once per spell. While 3.5 didn't have a specific mechanic that appends extra damage like intense spells, the mechanic concept is still the same.
Sometimes, you make multiple attacks with the same attack roll, such as when you use the Manyshot feat, or you make multiple attack rolls as part of the same attack, such as with the scorching ray spell. When you do so, only the first attack in the volley can be a sneak attack.
The reason it works without adding additional rules is that the core concept is that the damage is applied once *per attack*. Casting one spell with multiple attack rolls is still considered one attack. And yes, spells are considered attacks (see the Combat saving throw section).
The same concept applies to the intense spells mechanic, the favored class bonus for half-orcs, and the various 1-point-per-die damage increase mechanics for sorcerer bloodlines.
The same concept applies to the intense spells mechanic, the favored class bonus for half-orcs, and the various 1-point-per-die damage increase mechanics for sorcerer bloodlines.
Intense spells specifically says it only applies once per spell. The half orc bonus does not. The bloodline powers specifically say that they apply to each die.
So an intense scorching ray (from an 11th level caster) would do 4d6+5 on the first ray, and 4d6 on two more rays.
The same spell from a red-dragon-blooded sorcerer will do 4d6+4, 4d6+4, 4d6+4.
The same spell from a half-orc sorcerer might do the same thing or might do 4d6+5, 4d6+5, 4d6+5. I favor the latter, but I will certainly agree that it's unclear.