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Im not sure if Im blind but from your party description there's only 7 players listed. You said you have 8?
It sounds like the party was limited in it's Arcane spellcasting, with the Summoner and Sorc having a limited number of spells to cast. If you have the wrong spells for that situation are pretty much boned.
From the looks of the first fight there were plenty of melee combatants in the Fighter, Rogue and Summoner's Eidolon, plus ranged support from the Ranger. Between the Cleric and Oracle there should have been enough healing.
However, if they went in there without the right spell selection because they didn't know what they were up against then that can start them off at a great disadvantage. You said this last fight was the second time they fought Vordakai?
Sounds like poor party planning and execution to me. With 8 players they should have steamrolled an encounter made for 6. It would be a tough fight for a bit but the party should have taken care of business.
They need to go in there prepared based on past failures.
Sounds like poor party planning and execution to me. With 8 players they should have steamrolled an encounter made for 6. It would be a tough fight for a bit but the party should have taken care of business.They need to go in there prepared based on past failures.
Pretty much this. There are a few spells that can make V fairly useless in a fight (Silence was used by my players, for example). A party of seven or eight shouldn't have a problem, even with the guardian. The party can prepare ahead of time, learn of their enemy, and talk tactics. It shouldn't be too difficult for them, even with the six-person upgrade to the mod.
Could you be more specific?
Aside from the dominate effect (which is easily negated if they simply use a Protection from Evil spell when they buff) what is Vordekai doing that makes him so devastating?
Don't forget that it says in the text that Vordekai is somewhat deranged from his entombment, so it's perfectly fine that he wastes time gloating, doesn't cast spell defensively, or cast not-so effective spells at the PC's to mock them.
Maybe you're simply playing him too effectively.
Realistically, I doubt Vordekai would abandon his lair completely. It has too much interest to him (both because it contains his possessions and tomb, but also because of the unholy shrine).
How exactly are they losing? Tons of missed saves? Tons of misses on attacks? Can you explain how they are getting hosed?
Looking at your party, you seem to lack a tank. So who is the frontline fighter taking on the hard hitting monsters?
I'm kind of at a loss for how the party you describe, with the buffs you describe is losing this fight so badly, twice.
If the problem is failing saves from Vordakai's spells, perhaps they ned to find ways to buff Will saves and/or otherwise protect those with weak wills.
If the problem is the Skeletal Champion, then they need to concentrate firepower and take it out quickly before turning to the lich.
Honestly, in my game, Vordakai was a tough fight, in that they had a hard time getting to and doing damage to him, but he also did little damage to them. Partially that is because they did really well on their saves, but also because of action economy and decent tactics. Honestly, seven or eight against two their action economy advantage should make up for a lot in this battle.
So, to help you better, where in the fight is it going wrong and how are they dying?
any advice of what to do? i am thinking that when they try again to go see this lich that he will have buggered off having returned to full power so we can contiune the game
The group I ran also challenged him twice, losing both times. I had the lich teleport away after leveling up. His plan was to set up shop on Candlemere island. He learned about it from a PC who had his brain consumed! The group had sworn off exploring the island after a near TPK.
Good times.
The two main fighter types (inquisitor and ranger) are crossbow men) thats it. Instead of rescuing the dominated fighter they killed him. Cast hold person on him and then coup de grace him.
This is the core of the issue right here, IMHO. You haven't got a primary mega-damage dealer who can get up close and personal with V and his minion. Big mistake to off the fighter rather than trying to dispel the magic or just immobilize him and leave him for later. The attack they spent killing a helpless non-factor (and purportedly one of their buddies) instead of addressing the real threat cost them. What did the player of that character think about his buddies slitting his throat?
I would recommend again that they concentrate their attacks. The Skeletal Champion shouldn't last long if targeted with 5 spells and a couple of crossbow attacks in the same round. In fact, he shouldn't last more than one or two rounds, barring unbelievable luck with saving throws. Then they can gang up on V.
This an undeniably tough fight, as end of module BBEG's are supposed to be, but is nowhere near unwinnable, particularly on a third try.