Honestly, I love the monk as-is. This isn't some attempt to fix a horribly broken class, nor a tangent on ideas on how to make the monk better. Truthfully, this is the product of me being very bored coupled with contemplating different types of monk-esque concepts. Feel free to tear it to shreds and burn the remains, I have a thick skin, and I'll probably see like 50 things I should have changed when I wake up in the morning anyways.
If possible, I'd like criticism to come from two perspectives, that of "Design Space" and that o "Balance." Design space looks at the approach as a whole and asks whether or not that's a design goal and that's a proper execution. For instance, if I have all monks the ability to grow 50ft tall while playing the guitar, that would not be proper design space.
Balance looks at specific numbers and game balance.
Design Goals:
I had a few design goals going into this, and an idea of where I wanted the monk to sit when I was done. Here are some of the more important ones.
1. Allow a wider array of concepts
At the moment, the only really viable Monk build is a Strength-Based Monk. Players have expressed interest in playing both Dex-Based and Wis-Based monks as well. Now, these types of Monks do not need to keep up in terms of damage (which, IMO, the Strength-Based Monk should come out on top), but they need to have other abilities to compensate.
As a point of reference, I picture a Strength-Based Monk to be the average UFC contestant. Example martial arts styles would be Muay Thai and Kung Fu. Bruce Lee would be a Strength-Based Monk.
I picture Dexterity-Based Monks like I picture Aikido or Judo. However, to keep up with the player's expectation of moderate damage I'm going to lessen the grappling/combat maneuver focus these would imply in order to allow for extra damage.
I picture Wisdom-Based Monks like I picture most internal martial arts, like Tai Chi. However, I picture these martial arts through the lens of "Old Man in the Mountain" and westernized troupes, rather than the real martial art. Also, Jedi. Ki Wave basically exists to make Jedi.
2. Fix the MAD problem by making the Monk more MAD
Counter-intuitive, isn't it? Simply put, I plan on fixing the MAD problem by allowing each of the three key stats (Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom) to apply to enough things that you can get away with only really focusing in one, and having a moderate score in the others. I'm balancing the monk around a 16/14/14/12/10/8 array, with the 12 in Con and 8 in Charisma. Racial bonus likely goes into the 16, but not always.
3. Make the Monk less reliant on Buffs
Self explanatory. At the moment, a buffed up Monk can probably stand very close to a buffed up fighter. However, the fighter stands much better on his own. I plan on pulling this gap closer without buffs while leaving the distance with buffs where it is.
4. Options, options options. Without more power.
One thing you'll note is that I did not take the common advice of giving the monk full BAB. This is because BAB limits access to feats and limits access to certain options. Simply put, a fighter, ranger, or paladin should get access to those options (through feats) before a Monk. Yes, even Combat Maneuver feats.
Monk Bonus Feats and specific options like flurry and Maneuver Training allow the monk to contend with Full BAB classes practically in the Monk's chosen fields, but not actually in the breadth of combat options available. This is made up for with the Monk having their own set of combat options that no one else has practical access to, like Stunning Fist.
Through the use of "Ki Powers" I am giving the monk options that no one else has, but an ear must be kept towards making sure that the Fighter is better at sitting there and full-attacking round after round. It's what they do.
The Monk:
Alignment: Any lawful
Hit Die: d8
Starting Wealth: 1d6 × 10 gp (average 35 gp)
Class Skills
The monk’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
BAB: Medium
Saves: All Good
Special Features:
1st. Discipline, Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist, Unarmed Strike
2nd. Bonus Feat, Evasion
3rd. Fast Movement, Maneuver Training
4th. Ki Pool, Ki Power
5th. Double-Jump, Purity of Body
6th. Bonus Feat
7th. Tongue of the Sun and Moon
8th. Ki Power
9th. Improved Evasion
10th. Bonus Feat
11th. Diamond Body
12th. Ki Power
13th. Diamond Soul
14th. Bonus Feat
15th. Quivering Palm
16th. Ki Power
17th. Timeless Body
18th. Bonus Feat
19th. Slippery Soul
20th. Perfect Self, Ki Power
Discipline (Ex)
At the first level, a Monk selects which discipline they hail from. This determines the primary way in which the monk refines their body.
Iron Fist: The Monk receives Power Attack as a bonus feat. Whenever you use Power Attack, you gain an additional +1 bonus to damage.
Fluid Form: The Monk may substitute his Dexterity for Strength when calculating his Attack, CMB, and Damage when wielding a Monk Weapon or using Unarmed Strike. However, because he focuses his body so, he receives a -3 penalty to all other rolls modified by dexterity. This penalty is lessened by the Monk’s Strength Bonus.
Insightful Mind: The Monk may substitute his Wisdom for Strength when calculating his Attack, CMB, and Damage while wielding a Monk Weapon or using Unarmed Strike. However, because he focuses his mind so, he receives a -3 penalty to all other rolls modified by wisdom. This penalty is lessened by the Monk’s Strength Bonus.
AC Bonus (Ex)
When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +2 bonus to AC and CMD at 1st level. This bonus increases by 1 at level 4, and every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +7 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC do not stack with an armor bonus, but they apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Flurry of Blows (Ex)
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
Unarmed Strike (Ex)
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A monk also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.
Stunning Fist (Ex)
At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This condition replaces stunning the target for 1 round, and a successful saving throw still negates the effect. At 4th level, he can choose to make the target fatigued. At 8th level, he can make the target sickened for 1 minute. At 12th level, he can make the target staggered for 1d6+1 rounds. At 16th level, he can permanently blind or deafen the target. At 20th level, he can paralyze the target for 1d6+1 rounds. The monk must choose which condition will apply before the attack roll is made. These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.
Bonus Feat
At 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list:
Catch Off-Guard, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Deny Death, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Ki Stand, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Scorpion Style, and Throw Anything.
At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list:
Acrobatic Steps, Extra Ki Power, Heroic Recovery, Gorgon’s Fist, all Improved (Combat Maneuver) feats, Mobility, Vital Strike.
At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list:
Gliding Steps, Improved Critical, Ki Throw, Lunge, Medusa’s Wrath, Sidestep, Snatch Arrows, Spring Attack, Wind Stance, and Whirlwind Attack.
At 14th level, the following feats are added to the list:
Disarming Strike, all Greater (Combat Maneuver) feats, Improved Blind-Fight, Improved Ki Throw, Improved Vital Strike, Lightning Stance, Step Up and Strike
At 18th level, the following feats are added to the list:
Greater Blind-Fight, Greater Vital Strike
A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them. Every time a monk selects a bonus feat, they may also trade out one of their earlier choices for another monk bonus feat they could have selected at that time (meaning you can't switch out a 6th level feat for Greater Vital Strike, because you couldn't have selected it at level 6). You may not switch out feats that are used as a prerequisite for something else, and may not switch out bonus feats from other sources, including Ki Powers.
Evasion (Ex)
At 2nd level or higher, a monk can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Fast Movement (Ex)
At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table: Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Maneuver Training (Ex)
At 3rd level the Monk is considered to be one size category larger when performing combat maneuvers, but not when defending against them. This means they gain a +2 bonus to CMB from size, and may perform combat maneuvers against creatures that would otherwise be too large for them. For instance, a level 3 Monk may grapple a Huge creature. At level 11 and 19 the Monk is considered an additional size category larger.
Ki Pool (Su)
At 4th level, a monk gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in a monk's ki pool is equal to 1/2 his monk level + his Wisdom bonus. As long as a Monk has at least 1 point in his Ki Pool, he gains several benefits:
He may ignore his Strength Bonus from the opponent’s Damage Reduction, even DR/--.
He may ignore twice his Strength Bonus of an object's hardness.
He gains DR (Half Dex Bonus)/--.
He may add his Wisdom Bonus to all intelligence-based checks and to initiative, and Knowledge Skills may be used untrained without penalty (except Knowledge (Local)).
Further, a monk may spend 1 point of Ki as a swift action to gain an extra attack at his highest base attack bonus when using flurry of blows, grant a +20ft movement speed bonus for one round, or a +4 bonus to AC for one round.
Ki Powers (Su)
At level 4, and every 4 levels thereafter the monk may select one Ki Power from the following list. Ki Powers are supernatural capabilities that the monk gains through mastery of their Ki. Each of the following abilities have a Ki Cost. Those with a cost of 0 still require that the monk have at least one Ki Point in their pool to activate it. A monk may only select a particular Ki Power once, unless otherwise specified. The saving throw DC, when applicable, is equal to 10 + Half the Monk's Level + Wisdom Bonus.
Abundant Step (2 Ki): A monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his dexterity score. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability. A Monk must be at least 8th level before selecting this power.
Bonus Feat (0 Ki): A monk may select a Monk Bonus feat in place of a Ki Power. You may select this option multiple times. They must be the appropriate Monk Level to take the bonus feat, and must meet all prerequisites (unlike normal Monk Bonus Feats).
Cloud Step (1 Ki): As a swift action, the monk gains the benefit of an Airwalk spell until the end of their turn. You must have Slow Fall to take this Ki Power.
Combat Prowess (1 Ki): A Monk may gain a flash of insight as a swift action, granting him the benefits of any one combat feat he qualifies for. The benefits only last 1 round. At level 8, the monk may gain the benefits of any of the Greater (Combat Maneuver) feats, such as Greater Trip or Greater Disarm even if they don’t meet the prerequisites.
Counter-Throw (1 Ki): As an attack of opportunity, a monk may attempt a Combat Maneuver against an opponent that misses them.
Dash (1 Ki): As a swift action, the monk may move up to 5ft, +5ft per +2 Dex Bonus he has.
Elemental Fist (1 Ki): You may spend a point of Ki as a swift action to charge your attacks with one of the four elements: Fire, Cold, Electricity, or Acid. All of your attacks gain +1d6 damage of the chosen type until the end of the turn. On a critical hit, your attack deals +1d10 damage of the chosen element (2d10 on a x3 multiplier, 3d10 on a x4 multiplier). Rather than spend Ki, you may spend one of your uses of Stunning Fist on this ability. You must be at least 8th level to select this ability.
Empty Body (3 Ki): A monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 minute as though using the spell etherealness. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 3 points from his ki pool. This ability only affects the monk and cannot be used to make other creatures ethereal. A monk must be at least 16th level to select this ability.
Ki Burst (3 Ki): As a standard action, you can use Ki Wave on all targets in a (Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier)*5ft cone or burst, or twice that distance in a line. Make one attack or CMB roll and apply it equally to all targets. You must be at least 12th level and possess Ki Wave to take this Ki Power. You may not use a Full Attack Action when using Ki Burst.
Ki Wave (1 Ki): As a swift action, you may spend 1 Ki Point to allow your next Unarmed Strike be performed at a distance of up to (Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier)*5ft. You may even perform combat maneuvers with this attack as though it were your unarmed strike, but you take a -4 penalty for doing so. This counts as a melee attack, even though it is at a range. At level 8, a Monk may spend 2 Ki to cause Ki Wave to affect all of the Monk's attacks until the end of his turn, but he can't flurry with Ki Wave. At level 12, a Monk may spend 3 Ki as a swift action to affect all of his attacks until the end of his turn, and he may flurry using Ki Wave. If a target is grappled at a range, the Monk must use Ki Wave on each turn they intend to maintain the grapple.
Open-Wound Palm (1 Ki): You may cause your attack to deeply wound the opponent. This ability must be activated as a swift action. All of your attacks for that round inflict your Strength Bonus (minimum 1) in Bleed damage. This requires Versatile Unarmed Strike.
Open-Wound Style (0 Ki): If you use Open-Wound Palm against a creature that is already suffering from bleed HP damage, than that bleed effect is increased by 1 damage per round. You must have Open Wound Palm and by level 12 before you select this ability.
Powerful Maneuvers (0 Ki): The Monk deals his Strength Bonus in damage to a target he successfully makes a CMB check against.
Punishing Kick (0 Ki): You gain one additional use of Stunning Fist per day. Further, you may spend one use of your Stunning Fist as a free action to make an attack Punishing. A punishing attack causes the same effects of a Combat Maneuver on a successful hit, in addition to normal damage. A Fortitude Save negates the extra effect. You must declare both the use of this ability and which combat maneuver it’s mimicking before the attack is rolled, meaning it is wasted on a missed attack. For combat maneuvers where it matters, you are considered to have beat your opponent’s CMD by your Wisdom Score, regardless of the opponent’s stats. You must be at least 8th level to select this ability.
Redirect Attack (1 Ki): As an attack of opportunity, a Monk may redirect an attack that missed him. The opponent must reroll the attack, except its target is now anyone that the attack could legally target and is in a square threatened by the monk. You may not redirect an attack back onto the attacker.
Slow Fall (0 Ki): A monk reduces his effective distance when falling by 20ft, plus 10ft for every two levels after 4. A monk may move up walls and across ceilings as though they were normal ground. A Monk may cover up to half their Slow Fall distance per move action this way, but the benefits end at the end of their turn, which may cause the monk to fall.
Spell-Like Ability (1 Ki): You may select any of the following spells to cast as a spell-like ability. Your Caster Level is equal to your Monk Level, and DCs are based on your Wisdom Modifier. This may be taken multiple times, selecting a different spell each time. You must have a Monk Level at least twice the spell level you are mimicking to select that spell. You may only target yourself with any of these spells, even if the spell would normally affect multiple people.
Barkskin (1 Ki)
Augury (1 Ki)
Feather Step (1 Ki)
True Strike (1 Ki)
Gaseous Form (1 Ki)
Cloak of Winds (1 Ki)
Remove Disease (2 Ki)
Dragon’s Breath (2 Ki)
Neutralize Poison (1 Ki)
Poison (2 Ki)
Restoration (2 Ki)
Share Memory (0 Ki)
Silk to Steel (1 Ki)
Discordant Blast (2 Ki)
Shadow Step (1 Ki)
Spit Venom (2 Ki)
Battlemind (2 Ki, may link to people other than yourself)
Shadow Walk (3 Ki)
Cold Ice Strike (2 Ki)
Ki Shout (2 Ki)
Sonic thrust (2 Ki)
Strangling Hair (2 Ki)
Touch of Serenity (0 Ki): You gain one additional use of Stunning Fist per day. You may spend one use of your Stunning Fist as a free action to mimic the effects of the Touch of Serenity feat, which does not get its own pool of uses. You must be at least 8th level to select this ability.
Uncanny Dodge (0 Ki): You may gain Uncanny Dodge as a Ki Power.
Versatile Unarmed Strike (0 Ki): You may deal bashing, piercing, or slashing damage with your unarmed strike, and you may attack incorporeal creatures as though you were wielding a magic weapon. Finally, you gain Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) as a bonus feat, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites.
Wholeness of Body (2 Ki): You may spend 1 Ki as a Swift Action to gain Fast Healing equal to half your monk level for your Wisdom Bonus rounds (minimum 1).
Double-Jump (Su)
Any time a monk makes a jump check while they have at least one point of Ki, they may make another jump check mid-air as a free action. Further, they are always considered to have a running start when making jump checks.
Purity of Body (Ex)
At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Su)
A monk of 7th level or higher can speak with any living creature.
Improved Evasion (Ex)
At 9th level, a monk's evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Diamond Body (Ex)
At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.
Diamond Soul (Su)
At 13th level, a monk gains spell resistance equal to his current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk's spell resistance. A Monk may choose to lower his spell resistance as an Immediate Action and keep it from reasserting itself as a free action.
Quivering Palm (Su)
Starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. He can use this quivering palm attack once per day, and he must announce his intent before making his attack roll. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter, the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to his monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + the monk's Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time. A monk can have no more than 1 quivering palm in effect at one time. If a monk uses quivering palm while another is still in effect, the previous effect is negated.
Timeless Body (Su)
At 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when his time is up. Furthermore, the monk reduces all ability damage and ability drain he receives by 2, and negative levels by 1.
Slippery Soul (Su)
At 19th level, a monk is capable of rapidly recovering from almost any affliction. Any time a monk fails a save, he may spend 1 Ki as a non-action at the end of his next turn to reroll that save. If the new save is successful, than the effects cease. This effect does not work against effects with an instantaneous duration.
Perfect Self (Ex)
At level 20, the Monk reaches the peak of perfection. They gain a +2 Perfection Bonus to all ability scores, and are treated as an Outsider whenever it is convenient for them. They gain 2 additional Swift Actions per round, and gain 1 Ki Point per round (which may not take them over their maximum).
Custom Feat:
Note: Touch of Serenity, Punishing Kick, and Elemental Fist are all Ki Powers now, not feats. They all also work off of Stunning Fist attempts.
Extra Ki Power Prerequisites: Ki Pool class feature
Benefit: Select one Ki Power you qualify for, you gain that power. You may select this feat multiple times, selecting a different Ki Power each time.
Tagging this for later, if I have time, I'll rewrite the monk my players will be facing in a few sessions for a playtest, it won't be a major playtest but enough to fiddle with the numbers
Don't have time for a full read, sorry, but the wording on Insightful Mind doesn't seem fully intuitive. He takes a -3 penalty on everything modified by Wisdom, but that penalty can be reduced by a high Strength mod? Is that right? If so, make sure to clarify that the penalty can never be reduced below 0, or it could end up being a bonus to Wis-based rolls.
Don't have time for a full read, sorry, but the wording on Insightful Mind doesn't seem fully intuitive. He takes a -3 penalty on everything modified by Wisdom, but that penalty can be reduced by a high Strength mod? Is that right? If so, make sure to clarify that the penalty can never be reduced below 0, or it could end up being a bonus to Wis-based rolls.
I presume that the -3 to Wisdom modifier after using Insightful Mind to attack and the -3 to Dexterity modifier after using Fuild Form to attack are temporary, but the text does not say that. It would not make sense to give a Wisdom-based monk or a Dexterity-based monk a permanent handicap in his or her primary stat.
I see the reason for the penalty. Forcing Wisdom to act like Strength is an unnatural stretch. Forcing Dexterity to act like Strength is less of a stretch because of Weapon Finesse, but it is still unnatural. However, -3 to everything that is modified by Wisdom or Dexterity creates a boatload of numbers to recalculate. Finding a way to remove the penalties by not stretching the purpose of the stat would be more practical.
For example, imagine:
Insightful Mind: The Monk adds his Wisdom modifier instead of his Strength modifier to his attack roll for an attack with Stunning Fist. In addition, he may use Stunning Fist an additional number of times each day equal to his Wisdom bonus (minimum 1).
The Ki Powers fit into the Pathfinder tradition of a barbarian's Rage Powers, a rogue's Rogue Talents, etc. That is elegant. The monk lost a 4th level ability, 7th level ability, 12th level ability, and 19th level ability to gain a Ki power at 4th level, 8th level, 12th level, 16th level, and 20th level. He did not lose an ability near 16th level--did the monk lose something else to balance that? Absences are hard to notice.
I like the size modification on your Maneuver Training. My gnome monk was having trouble against ogres. I considered the original BAB rule about "At 3rd level, a monk uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus," to be overly awkard in both Maneuver Training and Flurry of Blows. Too bad you didn't change Flurry of Blows.
I see you fixed the flaw in Diamond Soul.
Ironically, I was browsing the Homebrew forum because I was about to post my own Dexterity-based monk archetype. I will delay my posting by a few days to avoid diverting attention from your inspiration.
Thank you for the feedback, everyone. Having looked at this with fresh eyes, I'm still in awe of how bad I am at naming stuff. I'll have to fix that.
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Tagging this for later, if I have time, I'll rewrite the monk my players will be facing in a few sessions for a playtest, it won't be a major playtest but enough to fiddle with the numbers
I will be appreciative of any data that can be supplied, thank you.
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Don't have time for a full read, sorry, but the wording on Insightful Mind doesn't seem fully intuitive. He takes a -3 penalty on everything modified by Wisdom, but that penalty can be reduced by a high Strength mod? Is that right? If so, make sure to clarify that the penalty can never be reduced below 0, or it could end up being a bonus to Wis-based rolls.
I presume that the -3 to Wisdom modifier after using Insightful Mind to attack and the -3 to Dexterity modifier after using Fuild Form to attack are temporary, but the text does not say that. It would not make sense to give a Wisdom-based monk or a Dexterity-based monk a permanent handicap in his or her primary stat.
I see the reason for the penalty. Forcing Wisdom to act like Strength is an unnatural stretch. Forcing Dexterity to act like Strength is less of a stretch because of Weapon Finesse, but it is still unnatural. However, -3 to everything that is modified by Wisdom or Dexterity creates a boatload of numbers to recalculate. Finding a way to remove the penalties by not stretching the purpose of the stat would be more practical.
For example, imagine:
Insightful Mind: The Monk adds his Wisdom modifier instead of his Strength modifier to his attack roll for an attack with Stunning Fist. In addition, he may use Stunning Fist an additional number of times each day equal to his Wisdom bonus (minimum 1).
Tim's interpretation is my intention. I'm also glad you were able to perceive why I did that--I was afraid it was too ambiguous from a fluff stand-point. That said, you are both right. It is a bit convoluted and confusing at the moment.
I would actually proffer widely different, conditional ways to apply damage like you describe, Mathmouse. However, the entire reason for doign the DEX/WIS to damage is to answer a perceived need within the Monk Class--consistent damage. I'm not sure anything less than adding the stat to each attack would satisfy people.
Proposed change:
Discipline (Ex)
At the first level, a Monk selects which discipline they hail from. This determines the primary way in which the monk refines their body.
Iron Hand: The Monk receives Power Attack as a bonus feat. Whenever you use Power Attack, you gain an additional +1 bonus to damage.
Open Fist: The Monk may substitute his Dexterity for Strength when calculating his Attack, CMB, and Damage when wielding a Monk Weapon or using Unarmed Strike. However, he receives a -1 penalty to damage for every point his Strength Modifier is below +3.
Zen's Grasp: The Monk may substitute his Wisdom for Strength when calculating his Attack, CMB, and Damage when wielding a Monk Weapon or using Unarmed Strike. However, he receives a -1 penalty to damage for every point his Strength Modifier is below +3.
Thoughts?
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The Ki Powers fit into the Pathfinder tradition of a barbarian's Rage Powers, a rogue's Rogue Talents, etc. That is elegant. The monk lost a 4th level ability, 7th level ability, 12th level ability, and 19th level ability to gain a Ki power at 4th level, 8th level, 12th level, 16th level, and 20th level. He did not lose an ability near 16th level--did the monk lose something else to balance that? Absences are hard to notice.
Ki Pool (Adamantine), which, to be fair, only matters for non-strength monks.
Open Fist: The Monk may substitute his Dexterity for Strength when calculating his Attack, CMB, and Damage when wielding a Monk Weapon or using Unarmed Strike. However, he receives a -1 penalty to damage for every point his Strength Modifier is below +3.
Thoughts?
For a monk with Strength 12 and Dexterity 14, he gets a +1 to attack, CMB, and damage normally, and when I apply Open Fist he gets a +2 to attack and CMB but a +0 to damage. Did you mean for his damage to decrease?
Another way to express the effect of Open Fist on damage is that the extra damage equals (Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier - 3) if Strength modifier is less than 3 and equals the Dexterity modifier if Strength modifier is greater than or equal to 3. If the monk's Dexterity is less than 16, the formula gives disappointing results. Thus, the hidden message of Open Fist is to not take this discipline unless the monk has Dexterity at least 16 and an above-average Strength.
SoulGambit wrote:
I would actually proffer widely different, conditional ways to apply damage like you describe, Mathmouse. However, the entire reason for doign the DEX/WIS to damage is to answer a perceived need within the Monk Class--consistent damage. I'm not sure anything less than adding the stat to each attack would satisfy people.
I read all 1,325 comments in the Why Are Monks So Bad post and the impression I got was that many people wanted monks to deal heavy damage because they could not think of anything else for the monk to do. Third Edition D&D made the monk too mundane to be a Jedi or a character from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder RPG barely improved on that. I think that the opportunity before you is that the Strength monk can be the damage dealer, the Dexterity monk can be Hong Kong movie stunt man who leaps as if suspended by wires, and the Wisdom monk can be the Jedi knight.
I like this concept, but I think that allowing Dex and Wis to apply to attack and damage is going to far and over-loading the monk at the front end.
Basically, Discipline makes the monk an ideal one-level dip for other classes. All standard combat classes could go further with Iron Fist and a temple sword. Rogues would LOVE to get the best of Fluid Form in combat, and any divine caster would get a lot out of Insightful Mind.
Also, I think you could make a lot more of the monk's abilities like Diamond Soul optional (because, well, it's a terrible option!).
I like this concept, but I think that allowing Dex and Wis to apply to attack and damage is going to far and over-loading the monk at the front end.
Basically, Discipline makes the monk an ideal one-level dip for other classes. All standard combat classes could go further with Iron Fist and a temple sword. Rogues would LOVE to get the best of Fluid Form in combat, and any divine caster would get a lot out of Insightful Mind.
Also, I think you could make a lot more of the monk's abilities like Diamond Soul optional (because, well, it's a terrible option!).
A rogue still needs strength 16 to have it mach up to an agile weapon so they can't dump strength all together.
None of my players are min-maxers, so a level dip doesn't really concern me. I take modifications to the monk from the forums and test them out against my players, actually most of the antagonist in my campaign have levels in monk, just in case their weapons get sundered..... AGAIN.
I kind of encourage level dipping, as long as they can justify it in their backstory and role-play it.
Fluid Form: The Monk may substitute his Dexterity for Strength when calculating his Attack, CMB, and Damage when wielding a Monk Weapon or using Unarmed Strike. However, because he focuses his body so, he receives a -3 penalty to all other rolls modified by dexterity during combat. This penalty is lessened by the Monk’s Strength Bonus.
Insightful Mind: The Monk may substitute his Wisdom for Strength when calculating his Attack, CMB, and Damage while wielding a Monk Weapon or using Unarmed Strike. However, because he focuses his mind so, he receives a -3 penalty to all other rolls modified by wisdom during combat. This penalty is lessened by the Monk’s Strength Bonus.
No fix needed, I'm going to run SoulGambits 2nd revision as is, I want to see how it plays out. I have an opponent lined up for my pc's: he's a MoMS with the boxing and kickboxing style from Heroes of the East. Coincidently, he's called "The Iron Hand" so it's only fitting that I make him an Iron Hand Disciple. I'm going to power attack the crap out of them.
A rogue still needs strength 16 to have it mach up to an agile weapon so they can't dump strength all together.
Never suggested they could or would completely dump strength - after all, they need carrying capacity for all that loot. Taking a hit of -1 or -2 (for 14 or 12 strength) on the skills he already gets +4 or +5 to from high dex is a price worth paying for going from +1 or +2 to hit and damage to +4 or +5. In short he gets the benefit of a 14-16 in dexterity for skills, and an 18-20 in strength, merely for the price of 12-14 strength and 18-20 dexterity. That's a great trade-off, even before you factor in items at higher level that pay it off completely.
The same is true of the cleric, druid, inquisitor etc.
I didn't get the chance to test the Iron Hand Disciple tonight, my pc's kinda went the other way. We're playing again in two weeks so hopefully I've left enough bread crumbs for them to follow back to Iron Hand, since he has information they need.
