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During our last session there was a dispute as to whether or not flanking is granted when you attempt a combat maneuver (specifically tripping). After looking over the rules for flanking in the book it says, "When making a melee attack...", which would lead you to believe only making a melee attack. I know that using a combat maneuver you are REPLACING a melee attack with the maneuver, but does that still qualify for flanking rules? I have to have this in RAW sadly so is there something in the book that I can use to make my argument?
Thanks!
A combat maneuver is an attack roll.
All Maneuvers are melee intrinsically.
Ergo, all maneuvers are melee attack rolls.
Anything but size modifier that counts on an attack roll should benefit a maneuver also. Consider that a weapon's enhancement bonus to attack rolls counts toward any maneuver which employs that weapon.
know what's kinda cool? your flank buddy (if say they are not that great in melee, like ranger animal companion) can also aid another so that you get an effective +4 to your combat maneuver check. Good Fido! Get right behind the bad man's knees so I can use you like a fulcrum ...
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A combat maneuver is an attack roll.
All Maneuvers are melee intrinsically.
Ergo, all maneuvers are melee attack rolls.
Anything but size Modifier that counts on an attack roll should benefit a maneuver also.
Go figure I read over the sentence that answered my question like 6 times and somehow missed it.
Combat maneuvers
are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and
take any other penalties that would normally apply to an
attack roll.
Thanks.
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A combat maneuver is an attack roll.
All Maneuvers are melee intrinsically.
Ergo, all maneuvers are melee attack rolls.
Anything but size Modifier that counts on an attack roll should benefit a maneuver also. Consider that a weapon's enhancement bonus to attack rolls counts toward any maneuver which employs that weapon.
This, with the added caveat that weapon-specific bonuses (like enhancement, or the Weapon Focus feat) only apply if you're actually employing your weapon in the maneuver. Holding a +3 greatsword while bull rushing someone won't give you a +3.
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This, with the added caveat that weapon-specific bonuses (like enhancement, or the Weapon Focus feat) only apply if you're actually employing your weapon in the maneuver. Holding a +3 greatsword while bull rushing someone won't give you a +3.A combat maneuver is an attack roll.
All Maneuvers are melee intrinsically.
Ergo, all maneuvers are melee attack rolls.
Anything but size Modifier that counts on an attack roll should benefit a maneuver also. Consider that a weapon's enhancement bonus to attack rolls counts toward any maneuver which employs that weapon.
But using my +2 Guisarme to trip or me +2 Light Steel Shield to bull rush will, corect?
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Your guisarme will give you the enhancement bonus, yes.
The shield... that's a little fuzzier. A bull rush doesn't seem to inherently use a weapon, and I can't find anything saying whether the option to do so is available. Since you generally can't do something unless the rules specifically say you can (barring GM fiat, obviously), I think the best answer is no.
However, talk to your GM. If it were me, for instance, I'd let you employ the shield in the bull rush, but I'd only allow you to add the enhancement bonus if you had specifically enhanced it as a weapon, since a shield can be enhanced two different ways (either to enhance AC or attack rolls) and cost different amounts of gold to do so.
But using my +2 Guisarme to trip or me +2 Light Steel Shield to bull rush will, corect?
I believe the shield will not count, although I have houseruled that in my own game when it has come up. Yes on the Guisarme, though.
The +2 light steel shield is (presumably) only enchanted for defensive purposes, so no I don't believe you add the +2 on any offensive maneuvers including CMB rolls.
Shields have to be enchanted separately in order to grant offensive bonuses.
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The +2 light steel shield is (presumably) only enchanted for defensive purposes, so no I don't believe you add the +2 on any offensive maneuvers including CMB rolls.
Shields have to be enchanted separately in order to grant offensive bonuses.
I think we can reasonably presume that wasn't the question. I think it was more a matter of whether a shield-enchanted-as-a-weapon can be used as part of a bull rush. And as stated, it seems both my and Evil Lincoln's leanings are no, though fertile ground for houseruling.
I think we can reasonably presume that wasn't the question. I think it was more a matter of whether a shield-enchanted-as-a-weapon can be used as part of a bull rush. And as stated, it seems both my and Evil Lincoln's leanings are no, though fertile ground for houseruling.
Actually, I think you can use any weapon to perform a maneuver unless the maneuver stipulates you must have a free hand (such as grapple). You merely do not get the additional benefits that a weapon with a listed maneuver ability affords (e.g. the ability to drop the weapon instead of allowing a reversal).
In which case, an offensively enchanted shield would be able bull rush or even trip with its offensive bonus.
If that's not how it works, it should, or else shields should have the bull rush maneuver added to their special properties. AFAIC, you can absolutely use a sword to trip someone and be at a significant advantage — even though a sword isn't a trip weapon.
This is all my opinion as a GM, of course, not accurate rules knowledge.
Actually, I think you can use any weapon to perform a maneuver unless the maneuver stipulates you must have a free hand (such as grapple). You merely do not get the additional benefits that a weapon with a listed maneuver ability affords (e.g. the ability to drop the weapon instead of allowing a reversal).
No bonus.
One of the benefits of using a combat maneuver weapon is that you can apply the weapon's enhancement bonus, weapon-specific attack bonuses such as Weapon Focus, and so on to your combat maneuver roll.
SKR: "In effect, there's no difference between making an unarmed trip attempt and a trip attempt with a +5 longsword because the sword doesn't help you make the trip attempt."
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In which case, an offensively enchanted shield would be able bull rush or even trip with its offensive bonus.
If that's not how it works, it should, or else shields should have the bull rush maneuver added to their special properties. AFAIC, you can absolutely use a sword to trip someone and be at a significant advantage — even though a sword isn't a trip weapon.
This is all my opinion as a GM, of course, not accurate rules knowledge.
The default of using or not using a weapon (or even the ability to do so) varies from maneuver to maneuver, with some being more vague than others in their rules language.
For your edification (since in the above quote you seem uncertain), the position of the rules on trips and trip weapons is thus:
• You don't have to have a trip weapon (or any weapon at all) to be able to make a trip attempt.
• You never get to add any weapon-specific attack bonuses (enhancement, Weapon Focus, etc) on a trip attempt unless you're employing a trip weapon for the attempt.
• If you don't have a trip weapon, then your trip attempts don't use a weapon at all. The most relevant effect of this is that having a non-trip reach weapon will not allow you to trip from a distance.
For reference, see the FAQ (conveniently, now located in the top-right of every page) as well as some posts that I have conveniently marked as favorites so you can simply click my name, hit the "Favorites" tab, and see James Jacobs asserting (repeatedly, due to stubbornness in the thread) the above points, and declaring that the ruling is official.
EDIT: I appear to have been ninja'd.