What happens when you try to 5-foot step into a square with an invisible ally?


Rules Questions


Do you have to make a Bull Rush against them spending a Standard Action? Can you just stop and not make the move and still make a Full-attack action?

Shadow Lodge

It varies from group to group.

My suggestion is you would bump into them or they would nudge you and you would have to continue moving into (or back into) a legal space and would be limited to a standard.

That said, I don't make players hide their minis when they turn invis and I don't really mind if they meta-game that little bit so it never comes up in my game.


harmor wrote:
Do you have to make a Bull Rush against them spending a Standard Action? Can you just stop and not make the move and still make a Full-attack action?

You START to 5 foot step. You are interrupted by feeling the presence of someone there. Change your action accordingly. No harm no foul no lost action.


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Opposite qualities cannot exist at the same time in the same space. Your visibility reacts with his invisibility, creating a rift in the time-space continuum, causing 20d6 points of untyped damage to everyone in a 10-foot radius.

Either that, or what BigNorseWolf said.


harmor wrote:
Do you have to make a Bull Rush against them spending a Standard Action? Can you just stop and not make the move and still make a Full-attack action?

Official rule is this:

Pathfinder Reference Document wrote:
Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer.

Which you can technically exploit to get an extra square of movement.

I'd make up an additional ruling: your ally can drop prone as an immediate action, allowing you to occupy the space. If the ally chooses not to drop, then refer to the rules on characters occupying the same square.

Shadow Lodge

Jawsh wrote:
harmor wrote:
Do you have to make a Bull Rush against them spending a Standard Action? Can you just stop and not make the move and still make a Full-attack action?

Official rule is this:

Pathfinder Reference Document wrote:
Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer.
Which you can technically exploit to get an extra square of movement.

In order to 'exploit' it you would have to deliberately end movement in an illegal space which is by definition not covered by that rule.

/nit

Dark Archive

0gre wrote:
Jawsh wrote:
harmor wrote:
Do you have to make a Bull Rush against them spending a Standard Action? Can you just stop and not make the move and still make a Full-attack action?

Official rule is this:

Pathfinder Reference Document wrote:
Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer.
Which you can technically exploit to get an extra square of movement.

In order to 'exploit' it you would have to deliberately end movement in an illegal space which is by definition not covered by that rule.

/nit

I could see the end of a jump ending in a square where they are not allowed to stop, thus forcing them to move to the next closest legal square. If the targeted landing square is right against the side of a cliff, with stuff on either side of it, then the next square is one farther then your jump made originally, thus gaining 1 square distance.

I know that it is contrived, but I have seen weirder things happen in game.

As for the original question, the other option that I have seen is to allow the invisible character (if they want to remain hidden from the one blundering into their square) a reflex save to not let the blunderer bump into them (DC as if they are tumbling through the blunderers square), and they would have to move out of the location at first chance (aka, at the start of their turn). Failed tumble check means that the blunderer knows that they are there and is forced to end movement before they enter the square.

(BTW, this is just my house-ruling, officially they just don't end movement in that turn).


5 ft squares are actually larger than you imagine. Even though usually it's not possible to be together in there, remember that you can pass through ally's squares without penalty, because its assumed your ally lets you pass?

I would say an invisible enemy, that doesn't want to get discovered can as well let you into or through the square, without you ever touching him.
He'd get an AoO against you, but probably won't take it, because that would give him away obviously.

And I'd say before invisible guy can take an action he has to move himself to another square

Shadow Lodge

Happler wrote:
I could see the end of a jump ending in a square where they are not allowed to stop, thus forcing them to move to the next closest legal square. If the targeted landing square is right against the side of a cliff, with stuff on either side of it, then the next square is one farther then your jump made originally, thus gaining 1 square distance.

Ah, but landing in empty air is legal space, it's just uncomfortable. You only get the choice if there's a legal position that's closer, in this case they are equidistant.

Dark Archive

0gre wrote:
Happler wrote:
I could see the end of a jump ending in a square where they are not allowed to stop, thus forcing them to move to the next closest legal square. If the targeted landing square is right against the side of a cliff, with stuff on either side of it, then the next square is one farther then your jump made originally, thus gaining 1 square distance.

Ah, but landing in empty air is legal space, it's just uncomfortable. You only get the choice if there's a legal position that's closer, in this case they are equidistant.

It was just the closest that my work/heat addled brain could come up with.

Shadow Lodge

Oh, it can happen. For example accidentally ending in an invisible enemies space or failing to tumble through an enemies space.

I guess that is the real possible 'exploit', if a character tries to tumble through an enemies space it is possible the nearest legal space is behind the enemy. Personally, I like James Jacob's take on that, you have the guy moving fall prone in his allies space in that situation.

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