Taking both subdomains of the same domain

[The White Sorcerer]

A player wanted to take both the Deception and Thievery subdomains for his cleric of Lamashtu (along with the Insanity subdomain). When he realized this was impossible since the two subdomains overlap (both replace the 7th-level domain spell), he insisted that it's still theoretically possible.

For example, the Ash and Smoke subdomains have no overlap. Would a cleric with access to both be able to take both of them as one domain pick?

There needs to be clear ruling against it somewhere, otherwise he won't believe it can't be done.

[Jeff1964]

APG wrote:

If a cleric selects a subdomain, she cannot select

its associated domain as her other domain choice (in
effect, the subdomain replaces its associated domain).

This means that you cannot take both subdomains from a single domain, as the first subdomain replaces the domain choice, and since you cannot take the same domain twice, you cannot take both subdomains of the same domain.

[Lamplighter]

Anonjack wrote:

A player wanted to take both the Deception and Thievery subdomains for his cleric of Lamashtu (along with the Insanity subdomain).

Plus, each subdomain uses one of your domain choices - the term "sub" domain is a bit misleading. If you have 2 domain choices, you can take (for example) Deception and Insanity, or Theivery and Insanity. Sub-domains aren't templates applied to your regular domain; they are modified versions of the domain that use up one of your domain choices. Listing them as changes to a regular domain just allows Paizo to avoid reprinting the stuff that doesn't change.

[otter cake]

OK...the APG spells out that technically it is RAW that you cannot take both subdomains of a single domain...

but back to the OP's question: would it be unreasonable for someone to take both Ash and Smoke instead of Fire? Smoke replaces the level 2+3 spells, and Ash replaces the level 7+9 spells, and each replaces a different domain power. I don't think that is particularly egregious...though not legal in PFS.

[Sean FitzSimon]

Jeff1964 wrote:

APG wrote:

If a cleric selects a subdomain, she cannot select

its associated domain as her other domain choice (in
effect, the subdomain replaces its associated domain).

This means that you cannot take both subdomains from a single domain, as the first subdomain replaces the domain choice, and since you cannot take the same domain twice, you cannot take both subdomains of the same domain.

I feel like this sums it up really well. You can't take the same domain twice.

However, in terms of power I don't see any reason to disallow it. One of the biggest pitfalls a cleric faces is picking two domains with good spells at each level. A quick glance at the listings and you'll see that nearly every domain has 3-4 "flavor" spells that essentially waste space during an adventuring day. It's important to pick your domains carefully so that you can overlap these spells and not end up with suck-tastic choices for 1-4th level. Because, let's face it, a cleric is the sum of her spells.

All in all, a character picking two subdomains of the same domain or (shudder) a domain and its subdomain ends up with 3-6 spells in which she has no choice of what to cast. That's a scary prospect, sir.

[Talonhawke]

Think the OP may be meaning taking both subdomains then a second domain not meaning having one domain twice by using both his domain slot on seperate subdomains.