Student of War- Fighter, but better?

[STR Ranger]

Hi,

I mentioned awhile ago I was gonna have a go at building ROY from Order of the Stick.

Now I was looking for PF classes/combos that could make him awesome and play the char archetype- An INTELLIGENT fighter.

I found Student of War in the PF SRD and went OMG!

http://www.pathfindersrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/stude nt-of-war

Now was this a 3.5 PRC- certainly gains alot and loses little:

Fighter
2 Wpn Train
2 Armor Train
5 feats
vs
Student of War
6 skills per level
High Will Save
+3 Know your enemy (unlimited use, eventual swift action, acts as FE or better AC/Saves or CMB/CMD)
3 feats
Int to AC instead of DEX (use if you wish or don't)
1/day ignore spell saved against
1/day BANE
Telling Blow/Deadly Blow (sorta free Pen and Gtr Pen Strike.

Now if you wait till level 8 before taking you get most of you fighter goodies. So this seems a great PRC.

I see Roy as probably a Two Handed Fighter8/Student of War7.
I'll post a build later.

[Gorbacz]

Student of War is PFRPG, not 3.5

While it's not bad, it requires you to blow three feats, of which at least one is something no optimizing Fighter would ever take (Skill Focus), and the other two aren't that hot either.

And the abilities, while fun and fluffy won't take you above a straight Fighter in pure damage output.

[Jadeite]

You also lose access to high level fighter feats (which are rather powerful). You also need to succeed on a Knowledge check to benefit from Know your Enemy that is, strangely, based on 10+ target HD. Not necessarily an auto success.

[Hitokiriweasel]

That seems more like a bard PRC than a fighter. I could possibly see it working if you were a half-elf for their racial skill focus and got the knowledge checks out of the way as quickly as possible. There are ways that it COULD work, but I don't think this PRC applies to Roy.

[STR Ranger]

Really? I've read every web comic and he comes across absolutely as a Strong, Smart fighter. He 'graduated fighter college' with honours and his old man's ghost is annoyed he didn't become a wizard despite having the brains.

Since the fighter class has so few skill points he'd struggle to be the Tactician he's supposed to be, if he was pure fighter. I'm pretty sure he'd have Deadly Stroke as well (grandpa taught him a one shot kill move while Roy was in heaven- Deadly Stroke does enough damage to force most things to save vs massive damage).

Let me see what I can build....

[STR Ranger]

1 Wpn Fcs: Greatsword, Power Attack, Combat Expertise
2 Shattering Strike (+1Sunder), Cleave
3 Overhand Chop, Dodge
4 Wpn Spl: Greatsword
5 Weapon Training+1, Dazzling Display
6 Shattering Strike+2, Lunge
7 Backswing, Skill Focus: Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
8 Gtr Wpn Fcs: Greatsword (Swap Cleave for Conrugan Smash)
9 Weapon Training+2, Shatter Defences
Enter Student of War
10 Know your Enemy+1
11 Mind over Metal, Dazing Assault, Intimidating Prowess
12 Anticipate 1/day
13 Know your Enemy +2, Deadly Stroke
14 Furious Focus
15 Telling Blow, Deadly Carnage
16 Know your Enemy +3
17 Bonus Feat, Regular Feat
18 Nemesis
19 Deadly Blow, Feat
20 Piledriver

Note: I didn't bother with improved Sunder since the archetype gives a bonus anyway and with lunge he wouldn't suffer AOO'S for any maneuvere anyway.

I'm not sure about Furious Focus/Dreadful Carnage but was building on Dazzling Display. I think may Iron Will/Improved should be there.

[Brambleman]

You know, Roy never struck me as a particularly good tactician. Granted he's decent enough and has some good plans.
But his tactics mostly fall in to these catagories:
Run Away!
Charge!
The first two together!

I do not think its enough to make him a dedicated tactician by class.
Besides, part of his character is that he stuck with basic fighter despite having different or more powerful options he could have chosen.

[STR Ranger]

Brambleman wrote:

You know, Roy never struck me as a particularly good tactician. Granted he's decent enough and has some good plans.

But his tactics mostly fall in to these catagories:
Run Away!
Charge!
The first two together!

I do not think its enough to make him a dedicated tactician by class.
Besides, part of his character is that he stuck with basic fighter despite having different or more powerful options he could have chosen.

I get that he's straight fighter in the comic, I'm trying to Pathfinderize a fairly Optimised 'Intelligent Fighter' using him as a base. If I went straight Fighter then a Weapon Master is Probably a better option.

I just figured a Student of War was a Brilliant way to get some synergy with a 2handed smart fighter. Duelist is also smart but Roy is a 2hander...

Let's also not forget Roy and Co WON 2/3 of the encounters you mention, so the Tactics employed were probably sound.

[Jadeite]

Ultimate Combat will have a tactician archetype for the fighter. I can't say how well it fits.

Why Knowledge Dungeoneering? Do you expect him to fight against masses of oozes and aberrations?

[STR Ranger]

Jadeite wrote:

Ultimate Combat will have a tactician archetype for the fighter. I can't say how well it fits.

Why Knowledge Dungeoneering? Do you expect him to fight against masses of oozes and aberrations?

That was just a quick pick-he'd probably better off with Planes or Nature.What do you suggest?

[Jadeite]

STR Ranger wrote:

That was just a quick pick-he'd probably better off with Planes or Nature.What do you suggest?

Arcana - constructs, dragons, magical beasts

Dungeoneering - aberrations, oozes
Local - humanoids
Nature - animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
Planes - outsiders
Religion - undead

Nature offers the biggest selection, but fey and plants are usually uncommon. Local only applies to one type, but humanoids are usually pretty common. It depends mostly on the campaign, similar to a ranger's favored enemy. In Kingmaker, for example, nature is probably the best choice while planes is rather useless. That only applies to identifying, though.

[Irulesmost]

I think this strip sums it up pretty well:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0791.html

He absolutely is a strong, intelligent fighter, but that's it. He's a vanilla fighter without any feats or PrCs to make use of his intelligence.