"Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect)."
Does this mean that if I craft a potion of alter self, I must choose the form the imbiber will take? Will I really have to have multiple potions, one for each possible form? Or is the form chosen considered "an effect to be controlled by the imbiber?"
I'd say a similar example of a spell with variable effects like that would be potions of Resist Energy. I'm not actually sure how they're ruled, but if you look for the parallel there it may help you figure it out.
Alter Self has a range of personal, so you can't have a Potion of Alter Self.
Silly me. Time to go to bed.
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Alter Self has a range of personal, so you can't have a Potion of Alter Self.
You might be right, but where does it say in the rules that you can’t create a potion of a spell with a range or personal? I have heard this before but cannot find anywhere in the rules that says this.
According to the section on potions in the Core Rule book: “The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect”, which indicates to me that you can create a potion with a range of personal.
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Alter Self has a range of personal, so you can't have a Potion of Alter Self.You might be right, but where does it say in the rules that you can’t create a potion of a spell with a range or personal? I have heard this before but cannot find anywhere in the rules that says this.
According to the section on potions in the Core Rule book: “The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect”, which indicates to me that you can create a potion with a range of personal.
To quote the magic item creation rules:
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.
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Alter Self has a range of personal, so you can't have a Potion of Alter Self.You might be right, but where does it say in the rules that you can’t create a potion of a spell with a range or personal? I have heard this before but cannot find anywhere in the rules that says this.
According to the section on potions in the Core Rule book: “The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect”, which indicates to me that you can create a potion with a range of personal.
To quote the magic item creation rules:
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.
Ah, thanks for pointing that out.
And what about an Alchemist with the "Infusion"-Discovery?
As the "Alter Self" spell is on the alchemists formulae list, he should be able to create an extract. And with the Infusion-Discovery he can pass this extract to one of his party members.
And as to your original question...
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist.
and
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type.
As you decide which form you'll take when you cast the spell, and casting the spell equals drinking the potion, I would assume that you can mix the extract, and just decide on your desired humanoid form when you're drinking it.
Should be legit, shouldn't it?
Sincerely
Huppi
The Alchemist needs to use infusion to give this spell to someone else, but yes, you decide what form it takes when its cast (or in this case, drunk)
The material component is a peice of the creature you want to turn into, so either you add elf ear or gnoll fur prior to drinking, or you add in a little bit of everything when you make it and think elfy thoughts when you drink it.
Polyjuice potion anyone?
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How about a similar one: A potion of Message.
Would you (when you create the potion) choose the target for the message? Or would the person drinking the potion choose the targets for the message.
Another good one is "command". I know that this is in the "offensive" potion and getting someone to drink one would be tough.. but would the creator choose the command that the potion represents? (Note, this would be good for a defensive iron cobra, it bites and injects a potion of command for "drop" or some other command.)
Sorry the original question just got me thinking :)
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How about a similar one: A potion of Message.
Would you (when you create the potion) choose the target for the message? Or would the person drinking the potion choose the targets for the message.
Another good one is "command". I know that this is in the "offensive" potion and getting someone to drink one would be tough.. but would the creator choose the command that the potion represents? (Note, this would be good for a defensive iron cobra, it bites and injects a potion of command for "drop" or some other command.)
"The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect)."
Potions are not effective for spells for which the caster and the target are not the same person. Potions cannot affect anyone other than who consumes them. Potions cannot be controlled by anyone other than who consumes it. They are thus only effective when the consumer is also the sole target of the effect.
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How about a similar one: A potion of Message.
Would you (when you create the potion) choose the target for the message? Or would the person drinking the potion choose the targets for the message.
Another good one is "command". I know that this is in the "offensive" potion and getting someone to drink one would be tough.. but would the creator choose the command that the potion represents? (Note, this would be good for a defensive iron cobra, it bites and injects a potion of command for "drop" or some other command.)
"The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect)."
Potions are not effective for spells for which the caster and the target are not the same person. Potions cannot affect anyone other than who consumes them. Potions cannot be controlled by anyone other than who consumes it. They are thus only effective when the consumer is also the sole target of the effect.
Okay, so the message would not work. But what about command?
There is some confusion on the potions in these two bolded lines from the core book:
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).
This first says that the person who brewed the potion has already made all the choices about the effect, while the second line states that the drinker controls the effect.
In this case with the spell command, would the person brewing the potion choose which command the bottle contains, or would the person drinking it choose?
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Okay, so the message would not work. But what about command?
There is some confusion on the potions in these two bolded lines from the core book:
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).This first says that the person who brewed the potion has already made all the choices about the effect, while the second line states that the drinker controls the effect.
In this case with the spell command, would the person brewing the potion choose which command the bottle contains, or would the person drinking it choose?
The person brewing command would decide what command. The drinker would then be the caster and the target; he would command himself to do the specific command contained in the potion.
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I'd say a similar example of a spell with variable effects like that would be potions of Resist Energy. I'm not actually sure how they're ruled, but if you look for the parallel there it may help you figure it out.I can safely say that in one PFS module one of the treaasure items was potion of Resist Energy (Cold). So yes as by the rules all variable effects of a spell are decided by the potion creater.
Resist Energy is clear. Less clear is potion of lesser restoration. That seems like it should be by ability type, such as lesser restoration (constitution), but by tradition they are un-typed.