Help with feline focused Druid and / or Witch

[tenketsu]

I have an NPC in a game I'm running that's a follower of an evil nature god. She was raised by evil elves, and her primary thing is turning into a big cat (cheetah, tiger, whatever), using Stealth and Perception to stalk prey, then running them down and tearing them to shreds. The problem is actually building that. I can't seem to come up with a build that is decently effectively while staying true to that. First I wanted to build it as a Witch, then a Druid/Witch, then a Druid, then back to a Druid/Witch (going Arcane Hierophant)... She has a 10 point buy, 3.5 and even 3.0 options are fine... I'm using some house rules that might help some, particularly I'm letting caster levels from different sources stack and non-casting classes add 1/2 per level to caster level also. Maybe I should build her to go Druid until she can Wild Shape into the cats, then Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian/Rogue to focus on the combat abilities?

Any builds or suggestions are appreciated.

[Glutton]

plains druid archtype, lion shaman, lion of talisid (spelling?) from book of exalted deeds re-flavoured evil all spring to mind.

[Phasics]

I think what your looking for is Witch Beast-Bonded archtype in UM

choose a cat familiar and you will be able to turn into it for min/day = your class level. also you get access to vermin shape and although cat is an animal it can be just as much a vermin as a rat, so you could argue your GM for this.

[tenketsu]

Glutton wrote:

plains druid archtype, lion shaman, lion of talisid (spelling?) from book of exalted deeds re-flavoured evil all spring to mind.

Plains Druid has some cool stuff for the idea, wouldn't have thought to check that out. But it looks like, RAW, it can't be combined with Lion Shaman? I did look at Lion Shaman, and mostly liked it, but it seems like you can't Wild Shape at all with it until level 6, right? Which means a pretty long wait until she can do her main trick (she's going to be level 2 to start). Don't think I'd ever looked at Lion of Talisid before, and it has a lot of nifty bits, but sadly it seems like the best parts of it are redundant if she's actually in a Tiger form already.

Phasics, I did look at Beast-Bonded, but the low duration was the main thing holding me back there. That, and it seemed criminal to single-class Witch and then focus primarily on physical stats.

I guess I should explain that I'm looking for something to play kind've like Treantmonk's "Spirit of the Beast", but specifically sticking to feline forms and not really caring about the casting except for buffing and healing herself. One of the goals would be being able to be in cat form all day, every day if the situation called for it. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how to alter that guide to apply under those constraints, because he puts a lot of stock in the general casting abilities (which of course, from a pure efficiency standpoint, he should, but don't help me much).

[Phasics]

tenketsu wrote:

Glutton wrote:

plains druid archtype, lion shaman, lion of talisid (spelling?) from book of exalted deeds re-flavoured evil all spring to mind.

Plains Druid has some cool stuff for the idea, wouldn't have thought to check that out. But it looks like, RAW, it can't be combined with Lion Shaman? I did look at Lion Shaman, and mostly liked it, but it seems like you can't Wild Shape at all with it until level 6, right? Which means a pretty long wait until she can do her main trick (she's going to be level 2 to start). Don't think I'd ever looked at Lion of Talisid before, and it has a lot of nifty bits, but sadly it seems like the best parts of it are redundant if she's actually in a Tiger form already.

Phasics, I did look at Beast-Bonded, but the low duration was the main thing holding me back there. That, and it seemed criminal to single-class Witch and then focus primarily on physical stats.

I guess I should explain that I'm looking for something to play kind've like Treantmonk's "Spirit of the Beast", but specifically sticking to feline forms and not really caring about the casting except for buffing and healing herself. One of the goals would be being able to be in cat form all day, every day if the situation called for it. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how to alter that guide to apply under those constraints, because he puts a lot of stock in the general casting abilities (which of course, from a pure efficiency standpoint, he should, but don't help me much).

heh yeah the wild shaper is not particularly efficient or powerful any more. Even wildshape time spent in form is fairly limited.

Would your Gm be opposed to a monstrous race ?

Its just that if you have the Change Shape special quality you have a one or more alternate forms that you can spend as long as you want in. You don't get any bonuses for being in the form but you don't lose any either.

That way you could pick a class that has no casting at all and instead pick a pure melee class that will enhance the form.

as for a monstrous class that could offer this and still be within an acceptable CR range none come to mind off the top of my head.

but

I think you could possibly argue for a set of feats such as this

Feat (some prereqs)
Change Shape 1
You can change to a tiny cat at will

Change Shape 2
You can now also change into small or medium feline

Change Shape 3
You can now also change shape into a Large feline

Keep your fingers cross that ultimate combat release might have a druid archtype that trades away all spellcasting for a pure shape changing class with much better wildshape durations and bonuses from class to it.

[Phasics]

Ah here you go this might be what your after

Were Tiger

Lycanthrope Rules

its only a CR+1

gets you your shape changing while remaining class independent so you could pick ranger for you class if you want to keep with the nature theme. Work with your GM to have you bitten by such a creature and then enjoy the RP that comes with it

[raven1272]

I'll throw in a curve ball or two because I've looked into how be a shape shifter as your main "schtick".

1. Wizard (Transmuter)
2. Sorcerer (Abysal) re-flavor to feline in this case
3. Either option and memorize/use lots and lots of beast shape spells.

Now, granted it is spell level 3+, so you are talking level 5 or 6 compared to the druid's level 4, but by level 6 you can change back and forth more often than a druid. But the total time in shape is less. However, the spell last long enough for a fight.

If you have a willing GM, make a plea bargain to get the Beast shape and related spells added to the druid's spell list. Then you could really change back and forth practically at will. It will boil down to what he or she thinks is more powerful. You have beast shape I vs. summon natures ally III. Personally, I would consider it if you gave me your summon spells in return. It boils down to being a leopard vs summoning a leopard and blasting with a spell at the same time.

Anyway, that is my curve ball =)

[Cheapy]

Tenk, you're the GM.

Bend the rules to awesome.

[tenketsu]

Thanks for the great suggestions, guys. Yes, as mentioned, I'm the DM, but house ruling is extra work and also I don't want to break the game too badly (especially since this NPC is a PC ally, as long as they don't anger her TOO badly). Still, it does seem like the best option to do what I want, here.

I'm leaning towards either

6 Druid (Plains Druid)/14 Ranger (Natural Weapon combat style)

or

6 Druid (Plains Druid)/14 Rogue (Scout)

In both cases I'd give up the Animal Companion/Domain for returning the Plains Druid's lowered Wild Shape back to normal, and create a custom feat of Extra Wild Shape. I'm also already letting most things that go up every class level to go up based on character level (so, for example, a 10 Fighter/10 Barbarian would have 44 base rounds of rage, like a 20 Barbarian, but the rage would only be +4 instead of +8 and would still cause fatigue since those are separate class features the 10 Ftr/10 Bar didn't get), so Wild Shape duration would be the same as a full Druid, but still restricted to Beast Shape 2 and only twice a day.

I'm torn between the two, though.

[Heymitch]

What if your evil NPC were cursed with lycanthropy? Wouldn't a Weretiger fit the bill? Add whatever class levels you like...some Barbarian for Rage, some Ranger for skills and Favored Enemy, maybe some Rogue...

[tenketsu]

Yeah, mechanically lycanthropy is a great option. I prefer the idea, however, that this is something she learned how to do, chooses to do, and could stop at any time, but doesn't--because she likes it.