Magus Spell Combat and Spell Strike Questions

[Quandary]

What is the intent with Spell Combat and ´secondary´ attacks, whether off-hand weapons like Armor Spikes (or from multiple arms ala Multi-Weapon Fighting) or other Natural Weapons you have available?

The ability says: This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).

Extra attacks, like from 2WF/MWF/Natural Attacks don´t actually require use of the Full Attack Action (as I mistakenly thought at one point), they just require making multiple attacks (which NORMALLY requires the Full Attack Action, but can also trigger on Charges via Pounce, for example)... For example, 2WF states: ¨If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.¨ Now, Spell Combat states ´the off-hand weapon is (the) spell that is being cast´, which precludes normal 2WF´ing (apparently, since that only grants one off-hand attack), but Multi-Weapon Fighting allows for multiple off-hand attacks. Natural Weapons would seem to be similar to MWF in this case.

BUT, Spell Combat specifically says you make all of your attacks ´with (your) melee weapon´, i.e. the main-hand weapon... So Spell Combat ISN´T a Full Attack, or ´making all your attacks´ IN GENERAL, but just for the main-hand. This is how I am reading the rules, i.e. multi-arm Maguses and those with Natural Attacks will miss out on those extra attacks when using Spell Combat, but I think it would be helpful to clarify that via FAQ. Since the spell is counting as an off-hand weapon, and taking attack penalties appropriate for 2WF, it seems like 2 Weapon Rend should apply (though you need to take 2WF Feat if you don´t take 2 Weapon Rend via Ranger Combat Style), but that is also something related that could be made clear in a FAQ.

[Quandary]

2nd QUESTION: Would Magus Spell Strikes (Touch Spells channeled thru Melee Attack) be treated similar to Poison, i.e. they need to do HP damage for the ´rider´ effect to trigger?, or would the effect trigger as long the attack hit AC?

[David Thomassen]

Spell Strike:

Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

Given the requiement for the stike with the weapon to be sucessful, I would go with it needing to have the potential to do damage, ie the base damage may be stopped by damage reduction, but the strike was good, so the spell goes off.

[Lareg]

My question is about the wielding portion of spell combat. I'm assuming "while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand," means the weapon must be classified as light or one-handed. The weapon can't be a two-handed weapon that is being used one handed (through feats or other class abilities) can it?

[Talonhawke]

Lareg wrote:

My question is about the wielding portion of spell combat. I'm assuming "while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand," means the weapon must be classified as light or one-handed. The weapon can't be a two-handed weapon that is being used one handed (through feats or other class abilities) can it?

Nope.

[Grick]

Quandary wrote:

What is the intent with Spell Combat and ´secondary´ attacks, whether off-hand weapons like Armor Spikes (or from multiple arms ala Multi-Weapon Fighting) or other Natural Weapons you have available?

They don't matter.

Spell Combat is a full round action. You can cast one spell, and make iterative attacks with the light/1H weapon in your other hand. You can't bite, gore, pounce, Armor Spike, etc. You can spend a full round action to use Spell Combat, or Full Attack, but not both.

Quandary wrote:

2nd QUESTION: Would Magus Spell Strikes (Touch Spells channeled thru Melee Attack) be treated similar to Poison, i.e. they need to do HP damage for the ´rider´ effect to trigger?, or would the effect trigger as long the attack hit AC?

If it hits, the spell goes off. You make a melee attack. If successful, (IE: You hit the target AC) you do whatever your weapon normally does, and the spell goes off. Spellstrike works fine with merciful weapons, sap, etc. DR can apply to the weapon damage, but not the spell damage (Assuming the spell isn't something weird with physical damage type)

Lareg wrote:

I'm assuming "while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand," means the weapon must be classified as light or one-handed. The weapon can't be a two-handed weapon that is being used one handed (through feats or other class abilities) can it?

Correct. Though, if you're thinking of the Bastard Sword, it's a one-handed weapon, so if you're proficient, then it works fine with Spell Combat.

Two-handed weapons work fine with Spellstrike, just not Spell Combat.

[Lareg]

Grick wrote:

Correct. Though, if you're thinking of the Bastard Sword, it's a one-handed weapon, so if you're proficient, then it works fine with Spell Combat.

Two-handed weapons work fine with Spellstrike, just not Spell Combat.

I was looking specifically at the Dorn-Dergar Master feat, which let's you "use a dorn-dergar as a one-handed weapon."

[Grick]

Lareg wrote:

I was looking specifically at the Dorn-Dergar Master feat, which let's you "use a dorn-dergar as a one-handed weapon."

My guess is the intent is that it's treated as a one-handed weapon, so Spell Combat would work, but all the normal one-handed rules also apply. (no extra power attack, 1.5Str, etc.)

Same for using, say, a small longspear, which is technically a two-handed weapon, but a medium creature can wield it one-handed (at -2 penalty).

[Reecy]

Here is the thing about Magus they were built more as a Duelist, they "normally only get 1 weapon".... If you are adding in multi-weapon or Natural attacks... That is all irrelevant to Spell combat..

Example You are a 6 armed Gerbil, You want to use Spell Combat, You do a Full round of attacks and cast a spell... It doesn't matter you merely suffer the -2 and you are treated as Dual-Wielding. As long as the hand you are using to cast a spell is free.

So you cast and pummel them or pummel them, and then cast...

Now if your looking at 2 handed weapon you get only the use of Spell Strike, and you do not get the use of Spell Combat. Such as a Bastard Sword with out the exotic Weapon Feat.