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Recently my group got into an arguement about the use of Back-stabbing in Combat. While one side took the position that one could only Backstab while he/she had Surprise and the opponent was deprived his Dex bonus, the other side argued that as long as the Back-stabber was behind the enemy and in a flanking position a Back-stab attemtp is possible. In this case with a light crossbow within 30' point blank range.
What is the official rule on the correct circumstances for a Backstab?
Recently my group got into an arguement about the use of Back-stabbing in Combat. While one side took the position that one could only Backstab while he/she had Surprise and the opponent was deprived his Dex bonus, the other side argued that as long as the Back-stabber was behind the enemy and in a flanking position a Back-stab attemtp is possible. In this case with a light crossbow within 30' point blank range.
What is the official rule on the correct circumstances for a Backstab?
There is no facing in pathfinder, so you can never "get behind" any one.
Two things allow sneak attack: the target is denied his Dex bonus to AC (not just being surprised) or the target is being flanked (only melee attacks can flank).
So, you can never 'flank' with a crossbow.
So, you can never 'flank' with a crossbow.
You can, but you have to be willing to hit someone with your crossbow. ;)
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do you mean sneak attack?
you dant backstab. you dont have to be behind them
if you are flanking (which requires a melee weapon) you get sneak attack.
if its the suprise round you get sneak attack
if you beat their init and go before them round 1 you get sneak attack
if they are unaware of you you get sneak attack
flanking requires a melee weapon. no flanking with ranged attacks
Recently my group got into an arguement about the use of Back-stabbing in Combat. While one side took the position that one could only Backstab while he/she had Surprise and the opponent was deprived his Dex bonus, the other side argued that as long as the Back-stabber was behind the enemy and in a flanking position a Back-stab attemtp is possible. In this case with a light crossbow within 30' point blank range.
What is the official rule on the correct circumstances for a Backstab?
Only 2E and lower editions had backstab, now there is sneak attack which does not have to be behind target and granted mltiple times/round if you qualify.
So the issue is you might be using the wrong terms. No one has backstab ability anymore.
What is the official rule on the correct circumstances for a Backstab?
"[Sneak] attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.... Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet."
So, point blank with a ranged weapon, you need to do anything that would deny the target Dex AC. The following conditions deny Dex AC:
Blinded
Cowering
Flat-footed (not yet acted is not the same as surprised, you can be unsurprised but still be flat-footed)
Helpless
Stunned
Things that cause the above conditions:
Blindness spell
Fear spell + corner target
Feint (bluff check)
Stunning Fist
I'm sure there are others.
In short, your group needs to work with you, or you need to use feint. And pick targets that haven't acted yet.
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What is the official rule on the correct circumstances for a Backstab?
There is no official rule for Backstab in Pathfinder. Backstab is not an ability in Pathfinder. It seems your group is suffering from 2nd Edition-itis. I myself have a player with that condition. :)
The above posts should answer any questions your group has about Sneak Attack.
It seems your group is suffering from 2nd Edition-itis. I myself have a player with that condition. :)
Haha :)
Better or worse than 1e-itis?
Also, if the character with sneak attack is invisible, he/she can use sneak attack within 30 feet with a ranged attack-once (unless you have improved invisibility, or my favorite, a creature with natural invisibility). Pixie rogues with crossbows and/or bows were a terror one GM inflicted on us in 2E.
Curious thing about Sneak Attack.. you can do it to a flanked target, but no where in there does it say you are required to be the one flanking it. All in all, there's always the Gang Up route as well.
Curious thing about Sneak Attack.. you can do it to a flanked target, but no where in there does it say you are required to be the one flanking it. All in all, there's always the Gang Up route as well.
Actually, the rules do specify that the rogue must do the flanking.
The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. [emphasis mine]
What about the rules on Gang Up?
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Gang Up (Combat)
You are adept at using greater numbers against foes.
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: You are considered to be flanking an opponent if at least two of your allies are threatening that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.
Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.
*************
If you are considered to be flanking, you are applying sneak attack damage. The rogue class ability is not going to specify that feat since it came out in a book a year after the core
Let me find my 1st Ed books that have not touched in like 20 years
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With many of the same symptoms, and often found together, they are still separate things. Luckily, the treatment for both is the same.
The prescription is more gaming. ;)
The other prescription for it is to read the main rulebook, write down questions as you think of them, see if the book or FAQ (which you can find here ), and then look at the forums for answers to your questions, lurking is perfectly acceptable, you can use the search function which is below the Shopping Cart Help/FAQ (which you can find in the uppermost right corner of your screen when at the top of this page: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG , next to the focus button.