I'm currently playing a staff magus 1/Monk 1 in a PBP game. I was thinking about how to build this character and my head's about to explode. He's half orc and the first level feat is dodge. I was thinking about making a spring attack build and using Expedious retreat for increased land speed. Thoughts?
What are you looking to accomplish? Are you a monk who has a touch of magic? Or are you looking for a magus who knows how to flurry with his staff? I think picking a focus will help people identify good choices for you.
I don't think you can spell combat and flurry with the same action.
Expeditious retreat won't work with monk speed increases -- don't know how many levels of monk you are thinking of.
I don't think you can spell combat and flurry with the same action.
Expeditious retreat won't work with monk speed increases -- don't know how many levels of monk you are thinking of.
Why not you can Dervish Dance and use spell combat ..... right??? Right??
Not talking another level of monk. Just did it for the armor bonus and a few other things. I'm not sure what I want him to do. Badass bouncy bouncy fighter with other magus stuff. I was thinking spring attack build and spell combating when I'm in a good position to do so.
Why not you can Dervish Dance and use spell combat ..... right??? Right??I don't think you can spell combat and flurry with the same action.
Expeditious retreat won't work with monk speed increases -- don't know how many levels of monk you are thinking of.
Dervish Dance doesn't state that it requires a full attack action to use. It states it works whenever you make an attack.
Relevant Quotes:
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
flurry of blows is a full round action -- spell combat is a full round action. Neither say, "As part of a full round action" or "as part of a full attack" or "As part of an attack" -- as such each uses its own full round action to use, and since you only have one full round action per round you can't use both in the same round.
Not talking another level of monk. Just did it for the armor bonus and a few other things. I'm not sure what I want him to do. Badass bouncy bouncy fighter with other magus stuff. I was thinking spring attack build and spell combating when I'm in a good position to do so.
If you are going to dip as a staff magus i would go Fighter so you can take Weapon Specialization at 3 rd level . Why would you want to add wis. to Ability Scores you need ?
Honestly Monk is a bad dip for a Magus. You lose your monk abilities when in armor, which means that boost to AC goes away when you wear armor, and the major benefit of a Magus is casting and armor simultaneously. Sort of like a Bard. Add on that it makes both classes way more MAD, and it's a very very bad synergy.
As stated above, if you want a dip, Fighter is a good dip, gives you ability to take some feats you don't otherwise qualify for, and gives you a wider array of weapons.
Another decent dip if you are wanting some boosts to saves would be Paladin, if your alignment allows it. The ability to heal yourself a limited amount a day, nice saves, a smite ability (which will stack with your magus spell attacks), and the ability to use CLW wands without UMD.
EDIT : And yes, I know Paladin is MAD, but your doing a 1 level dip and an 11 charisma let's you use those abilities, including the wands.
Not talking another level of monk. Just did it for the armor bonus and a few other things. I'm not sure what I want him to do. Badass bouncy bouncy fighter with other magus stuff. I was thinking spring attack build and spell combating when I'm in a good position to do so.If you are going to dip as a staff magus i would go Fighter so you can take Weapon Specialization at 3 rd level . Why would you want to add wis. to Ability Scores you need ?
staff magus can do that with staves.
Honestly Monk is a bad dip for a Magus. You lose your monk abilities when in armor, which means that boost to AC goes away when you wear armor, and the major benefit of a Magus is casting and armor simultaneously. Sort of like a Bard. Add on that it makes both classes way more MAD, and it's a very very bad synergy.
As stated above, if you want a dip, Fighter is a good dip, gives you ability to take some feats you don't otherwise qualify for, and gives you a wider array of weapons.
Another decent dip if you are wanting some boosts to saves would be Paladin, if your alignment allows it. The ability to heal yourself a limited amount a day, nice saves, a smite ability (which will stack with your magus spell attacks), and the ability to use CLW wands without UMD.
EDIT : And yes, I know Paladin is MAD, but your doing a 1 level dip and an 11 charisma let's you use those abilities, including the wands.
Staff magus can only wear light armor, so my wis mod (+2) makes up for that plus I can stay bouncy bouncy.
I don't have the mentality to play a pally properly. My brain is a bit too logical for all that.
staff magus can do that with staves.
You can't take weapon specialization at third level without the level of a Full bab class at first level .
Make yourself a staff strip fighter .
1 fighter /19 Magus
feats
1) weapons focus staff , combat expertise , improve trip
3) weapon specialization staff
Continue up the trip tree from there.
You want to give him high strength, decent dexterity and intelligence .
Yar.
Actually, a Magus with the Staff Magus Archetype (hence: staff magus) CAN in fact take Weapon Specialization at 3rd level without taking any Fighter levels.
They gain Quarterstaff Master as a Bonus Feat at first level.
The last line of the feat tells you that you qualify for Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff with this feat, regardless of having any fighter levels.
As for the OP: he's your character man, do what you want. However, spring attack trip build is a good choice, and I highly recommend going for Tripping Twirl eventually... you can't Spring Attack when your surrounded, but you can knock them all on their asses.
Lunge is another feat I highly recommend.
As for right now (going into 3rd level), Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff is a feat that is both valid and good for you to take. But if you really want to get into Spring Attack as soon as possible, something like:
(assuming Magus was your first level)
1: Quarterstaff Master (bonus)
1: Dodge
2: Monk Bonus: Combat Reflexes
3: Weapon Specialization
5: Mobility
6: Magus Bonus: Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
7: Spring Attack
9: Combat Expertise
11: Improved Trip
12: Magus Bonus: Tripping Staff
13: Greater Trip
15: Lunge
17: Tripping Twirl
17: Magus Bonus: any combat, metamagic, or item creation feat
19: any feat
If monk was your first level, then you could have Combat Expertise at 1st level, with dodge being your monk bonus, thus you can get into Improved Trip earlier. Spring attack will not happen until 7th level anyways though (due to the +4 BaB requirement).
Tripping Twirl will not come in until 17th level anyways as well, due to the +12 BaB requirement.
Tripping Staff can be taken as early as 9th level, but you need Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Weapon Focus first, which means you can't take Spring attack until later... but as you mentioned you want spring attack, I'll assume that is still true and push Tripping Staff back to 11th.
So, if Monk was your first level, you could look something like this:
1: Combat Expertise
1: Monk Bonus: Dodge
2: Magus Bonus: Quarterstaff Master
3: Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff
5: Mobility
6: Magus Bonus: Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
7: Spring Attack
9: Improved Trip
11: Tripping Staff
12: Magus Bonus: Greater Trip
13: Lunge
15: Anything you want
17: Anything you want
17: Magus Bonus: (Tripping Twirl)
19: Anything you want
EDIT: of course, if you don't want to go the Tripping route, then the spring attack suggestion still holds (which is every feat up to 7th level), and after that you can do whatever your heart desired. I suggested going Trip mostly because of the Tripping Staff feat, which turns any quarterstaff in your hands into a Trip weapon (thus you get all it's bonuses added to your trip attempts).
~P
Yar.
Actually, a Magus with the Staff Magus Archetype (hence: staff magus) CAN in fact take Weapon Specialization at 3rd level without taking any Fighter levels.
They gain Quarterstaff Master as a Bonus Feat at first level.
The last line of the feat tells you that you qualify for Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff with this feat, regardless of having any fighter levels.
As for the OP: he's your character man, do what you want. However, spring attack trip build is a good choice, and I highly recommend going for Tripping Twirl eventually... you can't Spring Attack when your surrounded, but you can knock them all on their asses.
Lunge is another feat I highly recommend.
As for right now (going into 3rd level), Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff is a feat that is both valid and good for you to take. But if you really want to get into Spring Attack as soon as possible, something like:
(assuming Magus was your first level)
1: Quarterstaff Master (bonus)
1: Dodge
2: Monk Bonus: Combat Reflexes
3: Weapon Specialization
5: Mobility
6: Magus Bonus: Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
7: Spring Attack
9: Combat Expertise
11: Improved Trip
12: Magus Bonus: Tripping Staff
13: Greater Trip
15: Lunge
17: Tripping Twirl
17: Magus Bonus: any combat, metamagic, or item creation feat
19: any featIf monk was your first level, then you could have Combat Expertise at 1st level, with dodge being your monk bonus, thus you can get into Improved Trip earlier. Spring attack will not happen until 7th level anyways though (due to the +4 BaB requirement).
Tripping Twirl will not come in until 17th level anyways as well, due to the +12 BaB requirement.
Tripping Staff can be taken as early as 9th level, but you need Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Weapon Focus first, which means you can't take Spring attack until later... but as you mentioned you want spring attack, I'll assume that is still true and push Tripping Staff back to 11th.
So, if Monk was your first level, you could look...
I like it. Thank you.
Yar.
Wow, I'm a doofus! You still need Weapon Focus before you can take Weapon specialization... amend the above list with this replacement:
3: Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
5: Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff
6: Magus Bonus: Mobility
7: Spring Attack
Everything else should still suite your needs.
^_^;;
~P
Staff magus can only wear light armor, so my wis mod (+2) makes up for that plus I can stay bouncy bouncy.
I don't have the mentality to play a pally properly. My brain is a bit too logical for all that.
Not true.
It helps at very low levels, yes.
At higher levels, it doesn't.
At level 1, +2 bonus for wisdom helps.
At level 10 when you can get Elven Chain +3, it's patently much worse. And since elven chain is +7 AC vs +2 AC, that's a 25% less chance of being hit for wearing the elven chain. That's assuming I remember correctly that Elven Chain is +4 AC base.
So a level dip into Monk to get Wisdom to AC is a poor trade off in the long run.
Staff magus can only wear light armor, so my wis mod (+2) makes up for that plus I can stay bouncy bouncy.
I don't have the mentality to play a pally properly. My brain is a bit too logical for all that.Not true.
It helps at very low levels, yes.
At higher levels, it doesn't.
At level 1, +2 bonus for wisdom helps.
At level 10 when you can get Elven Chain +3, it's patently much worse. And since elven chain is +7 AC vs +2 AC, that's a 25% less chance of being hit for wearing the elven chain. That's assuming I remember correctly that Elven Chain is +4 AC base.
So a level dip into Monk to get Wisdom to AC is a poor trade off in the long run.
+1 what he said. Nothing about a monk dip work other then fluff .
Wow... I was looking for advice about the same kind of build (Monk 2/Magus 18). I'm working on a full 20 level build, but I'm not sure myself if it's any good. I definitely wouldn't play it until at least level 4 just so I could begin to get the best of both worlds from the classes (waiting for Spellstrike, specifically).
For my build, I only did two levels of Monk (right away for the first two levels), but I chose the Weapon Adept archetype. That way you get two decent Monk bonus feats (I chose Dodge and Combat Reflexes), Precise Strike (more damage from flanking), AND Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff, of course) basically all for free. Not to mention +3 to all saves. I wasn't even thinking of any other Monk abilities, since they don't have much of an effect at any point. And I can live with that.
You've been getting suggestions for staff feats/tripping feats, and I'd recommend the same when you can do it. Lunge also seems like something to consider if you don't want to get too close to the combat. And I'm sure you know this by now, but whether you dip into Monk or not, you can still choose Weapon Specialization at character level 3 because of the wording of the Quarterstaff Master feat. (Basically mentioned that YET AGAIN, since people don't seem to understand that it is indeed possible.)
You mentioned wanting to do Spring Attack. I'm assuming that you can use the Spellstrike ability with that as well? Spring Attack specifically says "single melee attack", and Spellstrike is obviously a touch spell, but it's delivered through a single melee attack. I guess it just depends on the GM. I know my GM would allow it since it's awesome.
For me, I might not ever get to play it. I'm just doing this for fun because it seems like something I'd really love to do. I'd be interested to know if you actually enjoy playing as this concept. =)
You've probably already started your game, or this may not be relevant to you, but I thought I'd post this anyway. It's a build with all of the Spring Attack and Staff/Trip feats... planned out until at least 13th level. I don't even know what to do after that. I also included some feats that I was considering, but you can just disregard that stuff if it doesn't matter to you. Also, I totally left out Arcanas since those might be completely different for each of us.
[01] WEAPON ADEPT (MONK) 1: Combat Expertise (1st bonus feat), Dodge (class bonus feat), Improved Trip (human feat), Perfect Strike (class bonus feat)
[02] WEAPON ADEPT (MONK) 2: Combat Reflexes (class bonus feat), Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff (class bonus feat)
[03] STAFF MAGUS 1: Quarterstaff Master (class bonus feat), Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff (3rd bonus feat) (*note that you get Spell Combat)
[04] STAFF MAGUS 2: - (*note that you get Spellstrike)
[05] STAFF MAGUS 3: Mobility (5th bonus feat)
[06] STAFF MAGUS 4: -
[07] STAFF MAGUS 5: Lunge (7th bonus feat), Spring Attack (class bonus feat)
[08] STAFF MAGUS 6: -
[09] STAFF MAGUS 7: Tripping Staff (9th bonus feat) (*note that you get Quarterstaff Defense)
[10] STAFF MAGUS 8: - (*note that you get Improved Spell Combat)
[11] STAFF MAGUS 9: Greater Trip (11th bonus feat)
[12] STAFF MAGUS 10: - (*note that you get Staff Weapon)
[13] STAFF MAGUS 11: Whirlwind Attack (13th bonus feat)
[14] STAFF MAGUS 12: -
[15] STAFF MAGUS 13: ??? (15th bonus feat)
[16] STAFF MAGUS 14: - (*note that you get Greater Spell Combat)
[17] STAFF MAGUS 15: Tripping Twirl (17th bonus feat)
[18] STAFF MAGUS 16: -
[19] STAFF MAGUS 17: ??? (19th bonus feat), ??? (class bonus feat)
[20] STAFF MAGUS 18: -
The BAB of this build makes me sad since it only ever goes up to +14/+9/+4, but the saves are incredible at Fort +14, Ref +9, and Will +14. I'm hoping that the bonus from the Staff Weapon ability will counter the BAB issue. If anyone else sees this and can help me fill in the blanks (???), I'd greatly appreciate that. =)