If you are on a mount that is adjacent to an enemy can you:
1) Use a Move Action to have your mount attack (DC 10 Ride check) - the mount attacks and consumes a Standard Action.
2) Make a Readied action to "Attack the enemy when its within my reach" (the enemy is 5-feet away but you're using a reach weapon so you can't attack).
3) Make a Free action to move your mount 50-feet away (Guide with Knees DC 5 Ride check) - consumes the Mount's Move Action
4) Enemy makes an AoO on either me or the mount.
5) 5-feet into the mount's 50-foot move my AoO goes off when me and the mount are 10-feet away from the enemy.
6) Mount and I arrive at the end of the round 50-feet away from the enemy.
Anything I'm missing here?
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If you are on a mount that is adjacent to an enemy can you:
1) Use a Move Action to have your mount attack (DC 10 Ride check) - the mount attacks and consumes a Standard Action.
2) Make a Readied action to "Attack the enemy when its within my reach" (the enemy is 5-feet away but you're using a reach weapon so you can't attack).
3) Make a Free action to move your mount 50-feet away (Guide with Knees DC 5 Ride check) - consumes the Mount's Move Action
4) Enemy makes an AoO on either me or the mount.
5) 5-feet into the mount's 50-foot move my AoO goes off when me and the mount are 10-feet away from the enemy.
6) Mount and I arrive at the end of the round 50-feet away from the enemy.Anything I'm missing here?
Using a readied action to trigger an action within your own turn is fairly controversial. It wouldn't be permitted by many GMs. Additionally, your turn essentially ends when you make a readied action. While it doesn't get you everything you want here, you could give the attack command (whether handle animal or ride as appropriate to your playing group's interpretation), mount attacks, mount 5' steps away (with ride check if needed for guiding with knees), then rider attacks with reach and without provoking AoO. You might also require a ride check to attack with combat trained mount here. Whether the ride chec to attack with mount also serves the purpose of substituting for the handle animal check is unclear, although I think that many treat it that way and/or that ride substitutes for handle animal when mounted in general. I understand this to be more a matter of playing culture than RAW. The mounted combat rules in general are not great.
I have a link in my profile to the 3.5 Rules of the Game articles that include five sections on mounted combat that may be useful. Not everyone cares for them, but they are about the most coherent material that I've seen for mounted combat.
If you are on a mount that is adjacent to an enemy can you:
1) Use a Move Action to have your mount attack (DC 10 Ride check) - the mount attacks and consumes a Standard Action.
2) Make a Readied action to "Attack the enemy when its within my reach" (the enemy is 5-feet away but you're using a reach weapon so you can't attack).
3) Make a Free action to move your mount 50-feet away (Guide with Knees DC 5 Ride check) - consumes the Mount's Move Action
4) Enemy makes an AoO on either me or the mount.
5) 5-feet into the mount's 50-foot move my AoO goes off when me and the mount are 10-feet away from the enemy.
6) Mount and I arrive at the end of the round 50-feet away from the enemy.Anything I'm missing here?
When you attack in the middle of the mounts move you make a melee attack in the middle of your move, which isn't allowed without spring attack or ride by attack.
Ride-by Attack (Combat) can only be used in a charge.
Also you can't Spring Attack (Combat) your target if you start your turn adjacent to it.
Unfortunately I can't use either in this situation; I'm not trying to avoid the AoO.
@Howie23: You are correct that I can have my mount attack and then move back 5-feet and then attack from 10-feet away with a reach weapon. But what I'm attempting to do is avoid a full-attack action from the enemy on their next turn.
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@Howie23: You are correct that I can have my mount attack and then move back 5-feet and then attack from 10-feet away with a reach weapon. But what I'm attempting to do is avoid a full-attack action from the enemy on their next turn.
I understand; while i didnt know the specifics, it's why o said it may not get you everything you want. If your GM is fine with readying an action that is triggered by events you control, which I see as outside the scope of readied actions, you still have the idea that readied actions end your turn. A readied action must be taken before your next action; in your sequence this isn't the case. I don't know of a way to do what you are attempting without an appropriate rules resource, such as spring attack.
If in fact reading an action ends your turn, then you're saying that you can't Guide with Knees as a free action AFTER you ready an action to attack.
So you're saying I can't do Step #3 described above?
What if you do it this way:
1) Use a Move Action to have your mount attack (DC 10 Ride check) - the mount attacks and consumes a Standard Action.
2) Make a Free action to move your mount 50-feet away (Guide with Knees DC 5 Ride check) - consumes the Mount's Move Action
3) Make a Readied action to "Attack the enemy when its within my reach" (the enemy is 5-feet away but you're using a reach weapon so you can't attack).
4) Enemy makes an AoO on either me or the mount.
5) 5-feet into the mount's 50-foot move my AoO goes off when me and the mount are 10-feet away from the enemy.
6) Mount and I arrive at the end of the round 50-feet away from the enemy.
The question is when you setup your readied action does it happen at the same time the mount starts its move action or does it happen AFTER the mount finishes moving?
If in fact reading an action ends your turn, then you're saying that you can't Guide with Knees as a free action AFTER you ready an action to attack.
I'm not saying you can't take an action. I'm saying that if you take any movement and then make the melee attack you end your turn. For melee attacks your action the horses action are linked. Attacking in the middle of the move isn't allowed without some pretty hefty feat chains.
So you're saying I can't do Step #3 described above?
Mount attacks.
Mount moves 5 feet.You attack.
-You and the horse have now both attacked and moved. You have to stop (so you may as well make that a 5 foot step, and while you were at it, make full attacks)
-I don't see any substantiate difference here. Once you move and attack you're out of actions. the horses movement counts as your movement.
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed , but the mount uses its action to move.
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
this caveat does not exist melee attacks.
The question is when you setup your readied action does it happen at the same time the mount starts its move action or does it happen AFTER the mount finishes moving?
Greetings, fellow travellers.
Why can't you attack with a reach weapon, when you are mounted (assuming a large mount, medium rider, 10' reach)?
There was a discussion concerning attacking a (at least) large opponent, which is adjacent to you with a reach weapon and as far as I have followed it, the consensus was, that you actually can attack said foe by aiming at one of his occupied squares, let's say, further away;
YY
yy
U
The "y" and "Y" are the monster (large), "U" is you, armed with a reach weapon.
By attacking one of the "Y" squares you are fine to attack with a 10' reach weapon.
Now assume a large mount (the "y" and "Y" squares). You occupy the same space as the mount. In principle, you could attack from one of the "Y" squares with a reach weapon to attack the monster ("U" in this case).
Thoughts?
Ruyan.
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Greetings, fellow travellers.
Why can't you attack with a reach weapon, when you are mounted (assuming a large mount, medium rider, 10' reach)?
There was a discussion concerning attacking a (at least) large opponent, which is adjacent to you with a reach weapon and as far as I have followed it, the consensus was, that you actually can attack said foe by aiming at one of his occupied squares, let's say, further away;
YY
yy
UThe "y" and "Y" are the monster (large), "U" is you, armed with a reach weapon.
By attacking one of the "Y" squares you are fine to attack with a 10' reach weapon.Now assume a large mount (the "y" and "Y" squares). You occupy the same space as the mount. In principle, you could attack from one of the "Y" squares with a reach weapon to attack the monster ("U" in this case).
Thoughts?
Ruyan.
People can discuss lots of stuff and can be confused by a lot of stuff. There is no option on selecting the stare used to determine if you are adjacent. Selecting your opponent's square for determining cover on a ranged (and thus reach) attack, or selecting which of your squares is used to determine cover: none of these change whether you are adjacent . I'm typing from phone so can't go into a lot of detail, but what you are suggesting doesnt work as I understand the combat rules.
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If in fact reading an action ends your turn, then you're saying that you can't Guide with Knees as a free action AFTER you ready an action to attack.
So you're saying I can't do Step #3 described above?
Correct.
I'll get back to the rest of what you provided when I have a keyboard later today. It begs the question about readying an action that you then trigger yourself, but if your discussion is stipulating that this is ok at your table, I'll see what I can do.
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Greetings, fellow travellers.
Why can't you attack with a reach weapon, when you are mounted (assuming a large mount, medium rider, 10' reach)?
There was a discussion concerning attacking a (at least) large opponent, which is adjacent to you with a reach weapon and as far as I have followed it, the consensus was, that you actually can attack said foe by aiming at one of his occupied squares, let's say, further away;
YY
yy
UThe "y" and "Y" are the monster (large), "U" is you, armed with a reach weapon.
By attacking one of the "Y" squares you are fine to attack with a 10' reach weapon.Now assume a large mount (the "y" and "Y" squares). You occupy the same space as the mount. In principle, you could attack from one of the "Y" squares with a reach weapon to attack the monster ("U" in this case).
Thoughts?
Ruyan.
The ruling in 3.5, or Living Greyhawk at least, was that a rider may attack from any square of his larger mount (if it is no more than one size larger than he is). This "shifting in the saddle" permits a horseback rider with a lance to both take an AoO against someone moving in adjacent, and then also make regular attacks without penalty.
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The ruling in 3.5, or Living Greyhawk at least, was that a rider may attack from any square of his larger mount (if it is no more than one size larger than he is). This "shifting in the saddle" permits a horseback rider with a lance to both take an AoO against someone moving in adjacent, and then also make regular attacks without penalty.
Such a ruling did not appear in the 3.5 FAQ (which was official for LG), nor in Rules of the Games articles (referenced in my profile and which was not official for LG). It was material that was generally outside the scope of what Circle rulings were made. If you have such a reference, please provide it.
When you are mounted, you are assumed to simultaneously occupy all the squares of your mount. Effectively, for the purposes of targeting, you become the size of the mount. "A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat."
Big Creatures and Cover speaks about determining cover. I think there is a bit of a disconnect between the determination of cover and threatened squares. At some point, it becomes necessary to look at the rules with a squint, I think, and this will possibly result in different interpretations.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
Why can't you attack with a reach weapon, when you are mounted (assuming a large mount, medium rider, 10' reach)?
Because the rules say you cannot attack an adjacent creature. Adjacent, when given in the example, is a property of a creature, not of a particular square. By the very nature of the word adjacent, if ANY of the monster is adjacent to you then the monster itself is adjacent to you. Land adjacent to a national park, for example, is obviously some distance away from the farthest reaches of the park.
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Because the rules say you cannot attack an adjacent creature. Adjacent, when given in the example, is a property of a creature, not of a particular square. By the very nature of the word adjacent, if ANY of the monster is adjacent to you then the monster itself is adjacent to you.Greetings, fellow travellers.
Why can't you attack with a reach weapon, when you are mounted (assuming a large mount, medium rider, 10' reach)?
I agree with this. However, it introduces the oddity at times of determining cover for an attack from a different square than the adjacent attack comes from. This being one of the squints that I alluded to above.
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"No, Saint George! You're doing it all wrong! That thing has to be at least ten feet away!"
:-P
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"No, Saint George! You're doing it all wrong! That thing has to be at least ten feet away!"
:-P
Cute Mike. :)
Examples from literature, art, or real life have a limited place in rules discussions regarding what the rules are. They certainly provide the creative input about what might want the rules to be capable of portraying. However, they beg the question as to whether what is represented is something that should be covered by the general rule or through a rules resource such as a feat, class ability, weapon, etc.
"No, Saint George! You're doing it all wrong! That thing has to be at least ten feet away!"
:-P
I'd be more worried about whats going to happen when that things mother comes back.
Additionally, your turn essentially ends when you make a readied action.
Just wanted to point out that this is a common misconception. Just because you ready an action doesn't mean you suddenly lose any remaining actions that round. You could move and ready, or ready and move, for example.
EDIT: Never mind. I guess it was already discussed up thread.
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Additionally, your turn essentially ends when you make a readied action.Just wanted to point out that this is a common misconception. Just because you ready an action doesn't mean you suddenly lose any remaining actions that round. You could move and ready, or ready and move, for example.
EDIT: Never mind. I guess it was already discussed up thread.
Just to confirm that your "never mind" was, "oops, I was wrong." Your readied action must take place before your next action. So, while you can move and then ready, you cannot ready then move.
What may be questionable is whether you can, while mount is moving, ready an action which is then triggered by mount's continued movement. This sort of action coordination, in my opinion, is outside the scope of the limited mounted combat system and steps all over Ride-by Attack and similar feats. I see it as outside the scope of the RAI, even if marginally inside the RAW. I don't permit it at tables where I GM and would never attempt it as a player.
Just to confirm that your "never mind" was, "oops, I was wrong." Your readied action must take place before your next action. So, while you can move and then ready, you cannot ready then move.Additionally, your turn essentially ends when you make a readied action.Just wanted to point out that this is a common misconception. Just because you ready an action doesn't mean you suddenly lose any remaining actions that round. You could move and ready, or ready and move, for example.
EDIT: Never mind. I guess it was already discussed up thread.
Please provide a rules quote then, cause I'm preeetty suuure your wrong on that one.
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Please provide a rules quote then, cause I'm preeetty suuure your wrong on that one.Just to confirm that your "never mind" was, "oops, I was wrong." Your readied action must take place before your next action. So, while you can move and then ready, you cannot ready then move.Additionally, your turn essentially ends when you make a readied action.Just wanted to point out that this is a common misconception. Just because you ready an action doesn't mean you suddenly lose any remaining actions that round. You could move and ready, or ready and move, for example.
EDIT: Never mind. I guess it was already discussed up thread.
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
See the bold text.
Can you as a Move Action command your mount (Ride check: DC 10) to attack once and move or does it take two Move Actions?
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
See the bold text.
Thanks. Seems I've been lied to all these years.
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Can you as a Move Action command your mount (Ride check: DC 10) to attack once and move or does it take two Move Actions?
The only Ride check listed with DC 10 is to fight with a combat-trained mount. This allows you to make your own attacks while your warhorse also attacks. If you fail, you can't attack.
Riding (that is, moving) a mount doesn't require a check and has no listed action cost. Directing a combat-trained mount to attack is Handle Animal DC 10, a move action for a standard mount or free action for an animal companion.