A Bard as a BBEG


Advice


I am going to be running a story driven campaign soon where the main antagonist is a CE Bard / Fallen angel who was stripped of his wings and knowledge of the holy tongue , forced to walk the earth forever as punishment for his sin of composing a song superior to the creators hymm sung by all the angels (when he and his orchestra sung this song it sparked a emotion that was once unknown to the other angels "envy" and this sparked a war between the angels ) , his goal is to spite the creator by proving him wrong and turning his children from his love and corrupting the divine spark in every living being .

He is followed by other fallen angels who partook in his orchestra ( the story equivalent of robot masters from megaman )

The party consists of 3 players all undecided as to what they are going to play .

Any advice for making this demonic bard who crushes minds and corrupts souls with naught but his voice?


Start the BBEG's stat block with an appropriately templated angel or other celestial. A planetar or solar sounds about right, although with sufficient class levels you might aim lower towards the CR 10 base critter range. 20 levels of bard, a choice archetype or two and perhaps retooling the baddy's feats roster should make something pretty nasty without having to step too far above the low to mid CR 20 range.

Alternatively, you might go with destined bloodline sorcerer 20 and pick spells that exclusively (or exclusively with Eschew Materials factored in) use a V component.

Sovereign Court

Read the Silmarillion lately? I love bards so its a good choice. If anyone knows more than you than anything, its a bard. I agree with the above template. Have you told the players what this is about? I would recommend the players would get more fun out of interaction with the BBEG: Bard, Oracle with Knowledge focus and Inquisitor. Maybe someone gutsy can play Bard/Oracle or Bard/Inquisitor.


Talked to one of my players ( he dosent know about the story) and he wants to be a bard =) i anticipate a bards duel or 2 .


Aazen wrote:
Read the Silmarillion lately? I love bards so its a good choice. If anyone knows more than you than anything, its a bard. I agree with the above template. Have you told the players what this is about? I would recommend the players would get more fun out of interaction with the BBEG: Bard, Oracle with Knowledge focus and Inquisitor. Maybe someone gutsy can play Bard/Oracle or Bard/Inquisitor.

Actually my inspiration came from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc32Znoj8dk the lil jingle at 7:43 gave me the idea of a cool ce bard and ever since ive been taking different turns but that being said im a fan of the silmarillion as well =)

i havent told the players what the stories about ( they will find out through the campaign)


Turin the Mad wrote:

Start the BBEG's stat block with an appropriately templated angel or other celestial. A planetar or solar sounds about right, although with sufficient class levels you might aim lower towards the CR 10 base critter range. 20 levels of bard, a choice archetype or two and perhaps retooling the baddy's feats roster should make something pretty nasty without having to step too far above the low to mid CR 20 range.

Alternatively, you might go with destined bloodline sorcerer 20 and pick spells that exclusively (or exclusively with Eschew Materials factored in) use a V component.

Thanks for the advice i was actually thinking about making the bbeg a gestalt Bard / oracle and adding a template to him.

Makes sense for a fallen angel to still have a spark of divinity .


Bards need allies to though -- you are going to want people for him to use all his incredible buffs on -- so he needs to have some sort of fallen lantern archons with him at all times -- ones that spontaneously pop back into existence after say... 1d6 rounds each. Give him 5 of them.


Abraham spalding wrote:
Bards need allies to though -- you are going to want people for him to use all his incredible buffs on -- so he needs to have some sort of fallen lantern archons with him at all times -- ones that spontaneously pop back into existence after say... 1d6 rounds each. Give him 5 of them.

How many are in a choir of (fallen) angels? ^_^


A fallen nngel dirge Bard animating swarm of undeads in a desecrated church by playing on an oversized organ from the balcony and buffing them using Secrets of the grave and inspire courage? Nice encounter. Just add the soundtrack.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Start with the low end first before you worry about the big bad. Affect on the general world, consequences of certain music, cultists, enemies, rivals, etc. Unless you are starting high level right away, worry more about the foundation stuff, the tip of the tower can just be an abstract concept.


I once did a bard/warchanter boss in dnd 3.5 All his minions lvl 1 followers were archers and he used inspire legion to give all his lvl 1 followers 16 bab. It was amusing.


CotCT spoiler:
The BBEG in the Curse of the Crimson Throne Adventure Path is a bard.

You could probably insert your concept into that path and run it without changing all that much -- though you wouldn't be facing the BBEG until the final episode.

Doug M.


Start with astral deva.

Ditch the protective aura, the wings, and truespeech. Lower the base CR by 2 (to 12).

Add fiendish template (means you need a good and evil weapon to pierce DR). Since some of this template overlaps with the base abilities of an astra deva, I'd also up the SR from 25 to 30 and fire/electricity resistance from 10/10 to 20/20. Add +1 CR.

I'd give him 8 levels of bard for dirge of doom. I'd give him the gear of a level 20 NPC plus an artifact (maybe perfect golden lute). I'd also let the astra deva hit dice count as bard levels for the purposes of bard abilities (not gettting new abilities, just buffing the abilities a level 8 bard would have).

I'd call this a CR 20.


The BBEG cannot decline a rock off challenge?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I added a spoiler tag.


Bofdm wrote:
The BBEG cannot decline a rock off challenge?

it can but chances are it wont its prideful and arrogant in its ability to compose musical wonders ( it did trump gods hymm afterall) .


I intend for him to be a standalone encounter at the end although he does have alot of followers who will contest the players till the end of the campaign


Then don't go bard -- bards are force amplifiers. If you don't have a force they aren't nearly as good -- especially as a BBEG.

Sovereign Court

If thats the case. Then try this: He splits himself into clones and takes on the group. 1 Casts, 1 Melees, 1 Ranged. All Buff.


Stasiscell wrote:
Any advice for making this demonic bard who crushes minds and corrupts souls with naught but his voice?

His minions are all the musicians who have sold him their souls that he might bless their musical talent and grant them everlasting fame...

(You have seen the movie Crossroads, no?)


Abraham spalding wrote:
Then don't go bard -- bards are force amplifiers. If you don't have a force they aren't nearly as good -- especially as a BBEG.

Not *entirely* true. I definitely see the benefits of having minions, but with the fascinate mechanics and the alternative bard abilities (Court bard?), I could see a bard (with a bunch of angel abilities and a high AC/high DR) as a scary individual opponent.

Sovereign Court

davidvs wrote:
Stasiscell wrote:
Any advice for making this demonic bard who crushes minds and corrupts souls with naught but his voice?

His minions are all the musicians who have sold him their souls that he might bless their musical talent and grant them everlasting fame...

(You have seen the movie Crossroads, no?)

Oooh. +1 for the idea.

+5 for the obscure movie cite. (Ralph Macchio in between Karate Kid's)


meabolex wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Then don't go bard -- bards are force amplifiers. If you don't have a force they aren't nearly as good -- especially as a BBEG.
Not *entirely* true. I definitely see the benefits of having minions, but with the fascinate mechanics and the alternative bard abilities (Court bard?), I could see a bard (with a bunch of angel abilities and a high AC/high DR) as a scary individual opponent.

Fascinate has a special problem -- it doesn't work on hostile creatures -- The friendly to hostile scale only applies to NPCs (especially since diplomacy specifically doesn't work on PCs) meaning that actual application of the fascinate ability can be very difficult to adjudicate, and devolve into the GM saying you didn't come into the situation hostile and the player saying the GM is trying to tell him how to role play his character. NOW this isn't a guaranteed problem -- but it very well could be a problem.

The Court Bard is a wonderful suggestion though and could easily help change things around -- in which case I recommend crushing despair to go with it for a double whammy.

In this case I would almost recommend an aura of despair or ill fortune (a thematically opposite to the magic circle effect) -- however I think 12 bard levels would be in order for a CR 20 monster (as is suggested in the monster/npc guide lines in the back of the bestiary).

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