Hi
I'm building a halfling rogue right now, and I came across a dilema here.
At first I thought of making him high dex (18) and low str (10), but Dex can be added to attack with Weapon Finesse, but there's nothing like that for damage that I'm aware of.
So sure, eventually I do alot of damage via flanking and sneak attack, or so is the plan at least, that a +3 or +4 from strength isn't really that important, right?
But I kept thinking. Why do I actually need high dex for a rogue? To qualify for TWF feats? That means I need 15 Dex at level 1, 17 at level 8 and 19 at level 15.
I guess having 15 Dex and then getting a +2 and +4 dex item at the appropriate intervals is probably not that hard. Even a str/dex/con belt should be easily in the wealth by level (or make a seperate +dex gloves or something)
That way I get higher strength, can put my level-updates into strenght, do more damage. I also safe a feat on Weapon Finesse as I don't need that.
On the downside, some of my dex-based skills will be worse.
However due to dex bonus and str penalty, well I'll never get str as high as dex. I can easily reach 18 dex, but str, I can barely get to 15. Basicly you could say it's a -2 attack vs +2 damage.
But then again, when I put points into Str it raises both attack and damage, while the dex rogue would only increase attack.
So maybe not such a good idea with that race?
Does that make sense? Am I missing something?
Yes, a halfling maybe is not totally optimal for this, but that part is not really negotiable.
Or is there actually a feat that replaces Dex for damage as well? (but even then the higher str might be better as it would still cost me 2 feats (or 1 rogue talent+1 feat))
Not being able to put all your eggs in one basket (Dex) is an intentional drawback of the game. If you could get AC, saves, + to attack, + to damage, bonus to initiative, and nice skill bumps by boosting Dex it would be an overly powerful stat. The fact that you can still get all of that without the + damage bump is still very nice.
Halfling TWF Dex rogues should focus on boosting their + attack stat so that they can land all of those nice sneak attacks. Rather than worry about a ho-hum Str stat, try to get some weapons that add elemental damage if you want the damage bump. At least that's my take on it, and I played a TWF halfling rogue up to around level 12 and had a blast. Good luck!
Not being able to put all your eggs in one basket (Dex) is an intentional drawback of the game. If you could get AC, saves, + to attack, + to damage, bonus to initiative, and nice skill bumps by boosting Dex it would be an overly powerful stat. The fact that you can still get all of that without the + damage bump is still very nice.
Halfling TWF Dex rogues should focus on boosting their + attack stat so that they can land all of those nice sneak attacks. Rather than worry about a ho-hum Str stat, try to get some weapons that add elemental damage if you want the damage bump. At least that's my take on it, and I played a TWF halfling rogue up to around level 12 and had a blast. Good luck!
Yes, Dex is responsible for alot more, I understand that. And I see the need for increasing +attack as well.
However look at it this way:
Let's say we have two 12th level rogues.
Rogue A started with 10 str, 18 dex, took weapon finesse and put all points into dex.
Rogue B started with 15 str, 15 dex, doesn't take weapon finesse and puts all points into str.
Both have a +4 str/dex belt, and both have TWF and Imp. TWF.
BAB is +9/+4, both get a +1 for small size and another +1 for weapon focus.
They most likely have magic weapons too, but I'm ignoring that now, or it just gets too complicated.
A has 14 str, 25 dex.
He gets 4 attacks and makes them at +16/+16/+11/+11.
His damagebonus is +6d6 +2 or 21+2=23 on average.
B has now 22 str, 19 dex.
He also gets 4 attacks and makes them at +15/+15/+10/+10.
His damagebonus is +6d6 +6 or 21+6=27 on average.
Yes at 8th and 16th level the difference in attack would be 2, but that difference will always be 1 or 2, while the difference in damage always gets bigger.
A obviously has better saves and AC, that might account for something as well
Exactly, you're trading off a few points of damage per shot for...
Higher AC, faster initiative, better saves, better skills, hitting more often, etc.
A balanced approach is often best. If you find yourself hitting consistently then you can start putting points into strength rather than dex. I found having a high dex to be very advantageous all things considered (and there are lots of things to consider as you've said). Good luck!
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The difference does become bigger, but it does not become a larger fraction of total damage, and that's the important thing. At 12th level, you're going to own two +3 weapons, meaning there's several more dice landing on the table with each hit.<snip>
A has 14 str, 25 dex.
He gets 4 attacks and makes them at +16/+16/+11/+11.
His damagebonus is +6d6 +2 or 21+2=23 on average.B has now 22 str, 19 dex.
He also gets 4 attacks and makes them at +15/+15/+10/+10.
His damagebonus is +6d6 +6 or 21+6=27 on average.Yes at 8th and 16th level the difference in attack would be 2, but that difference will always be 1 or 2, while the difference in damage always gets bigger.
A obviously has better saves and AC, that might account for something as wellAnd skills, a rogue's bread-and-butter. As a halfling, stratospheric Escape Artist is not high enough, because things are always trying to eat you. A high-level rogue can get his Acrobatics to +24 as well, letting him waltz right through opponent squares.
Am I missing something?
Yes: Power Attack and Weapon Finesse are an awesome combination for halfling.
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Am I missing something?Yes: Power Attack and Weapon Finesse are an awesome combination for halfling.
i'd use piranha stike over power attack with a TWF halfling
also, when am i gonna get stats for a full "Ling" :P
i'd use piranha stike over power attack with a TWF halflingalso, when am i gonna get stats for a full "Ling" :P
Why?
As long as you have 13 Str Power attack seems superior, as it can be used with any weapon, not just light weapons.While a rapier for example can be finessed it's not a light weapon.
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i'd use piranha stike over power attack with a TWF halflingalso, when am i gonna get stats for a full "Ling" :P
Why?
As long as you have 13 Str Power attack seems superior, as it can be used with any weapon, not just light weapons.
While a rapier for example can be finessed it's not a light weapon.
i assume, in a point buy, the 13 str may not be doable for all builds.
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i assume, in a point buy, the 13 str may not be doable for all builds.A fair assumption considering one of the options under this discussion starts with a 10 strength.
IMO "weak" halflings should definitely stick to all or nearly-all rogue levels (for lots of sneak-attack dice to make up the difference).
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Crit-fishing with kukris is really only viable if you have LOTS of numeric bonuses to damage, and can manage to secure a lot of melee full-attack opportunities versus opponents you're reasonably sure won't splatter you in a single rebound. TWF+ITWF are also two more feats vying for a rogue's limited supply. You don't get Improved Critical until BAB:8 -- which means the 11th-level feat slot for a rogue. Unless you spring for Keen twice.
The classic death of a "melee rogue" in higher level combat is due to failed fort- or will-saves and low HP, so be careful with this Drizzt-type stuff -- because you never know when the "mage" you decided to sneak up on and futz with turns out to be an illusioned demon with acid-dripping claws and teeth bigger than your weapons.