I'm talking about ninja / shadowdancer. The ninja can pick up a ninja trick called Pressure Points which allows you to deal a point of strength or dexterity damage every time you successfully sneak attack. This synergises well with your flanking shadow companion who has a strength draining touch attack.
So what I would like to see are people's ideas on how best to optimise this build idea assuming a 20 point build up to 12th level that could potentially be used in society play. The money's in the detail so let's see it.
challange accepted
i will fiddle with the build for a little, and then post it in a coupple hours after breakfast.
Nicklas
I've been experimenting with the shadowdancer lately, and it's pretty alright by itself, but the Shadow companion gets stoopid fast. ARRGGH! Flying, incorporeal, touch-attacking, strength-damaging, flanking buddy!
Why not mix in some Magus for channeled Chill Touch spells?
Why not mix in some Magus for channeled Chill Touch spells?
I had considered this option. However, the enemy are entitled to a fortitude save to negate the strength damage and you are limited by the number of 1st level spells you can cast. The one good thing about this spell is that you can use it one time per level for each casting which makes it better than other strength draining spells.
The ninja's sneak attack ability can go off all day under the right circumstances without a save lending itself better to a strength drain build.
And just before i start going off on something completely crazy. Does the build have to be only ninja / shadow dancer ? or is the fact that its a strenght draining build suffice.
Cause right now im playing around with barb / ninja / shadow dancer (horrible role playing probably) and a Fighter / ninja / shadow dancer (probably better, but without all the cool fluff from the ninja)
Amusingly, with the Coherent Rage trait, you can use stealth while raging. Could be amusing for Hide In Plain Sight + Spring Attack. Big angry man jumping in and out of the shadow.
the main problem is that the ninjas attacks only deal 1 str dam a piece. so in order to get that high, we need loads of attacks. But to actually hit some big brawny guy, with 6 or 7 attacks a round is very hard. Unless we mix in the barbariab path that is :)
And just before i start going off on something completely crazy. Does the build have to be only ninja / shadow dancer ? or is the fact that its a strenght draining build suffice.
Cause right now im playing around with barb / ninja / shadow dancer (horrible role playing probably) and a Fighter / ninja / shadow dancer (probably better, but without all the cool fluff from the ninja)
Don't hold back. Make any strength draining build wih any classes that you think is optimal. I just mentioned the ninja / shadowdancer concept because it appears at face value to be the most effective at draining strength.
If you are optimizing for strength damage wouldn't a rogue be better? crippling strike does 2 per hit. You could take major magic if you want to get ray of enfeeblement or chill touch.
Also since chill touch is an attack and deals damage in addition to the str part you should be able apply sneak attack (just to hitpoint damage not to str). That means you are attacking vs touch ac but doing nearly the same damage as with a normal weapon which is pretty nice even if they make the save and take 2 str damage instead of 3.
If you are optimizing for strength damage wouldn't a rogue be better? crippling strike does 2 per hit. You could take major magic if you want to get ray of enfeeblement or chill touch.
Also since chill touch is an attack and deals damage in addition to the str part you should be able apply sneak attack (just to hitpoint damage not to str). That means you are attacking vs touch ac but doing nearly the same damage as with a normal weapon which is pretty nice even if they make the save and take 2 str damage instead of 3.
Crippling Strike is awesome but you can't pick it up until 10th level. It would be nice to have a functioning strength draining build a couple of levels earlier. Also, I think the ninja can pick up crippling strike anyway as one of it's ninja tricks.
The touch attack component is nice but I think the save component makes it too unreliable. If you are sneak attacking and flanking with your ninja/shadowdancer, you are more than likely going to hit anyway. Nonetheless, it would be interesting to see what a magus/shadowdancer would look like if they focused on strength draining with chill touch.
Don't forget poisons as well. Save based or not, if you're hitting someone enough times with enough save-or-suck abilities, they're bound to fail some of them. The only downside is that most of the high-strength enemies have high Fort saves as well. Of course, rendering the 7 strength wizard immobile is always fun.
am i thinking of somthing else or does the ninja strength drain not stack with itself i.e if you apply a second time it overides and dosen't stack ?
its regular str damage, so it should stack with itself. Else the point of giving 1 str or dex damage is also kinda moot, as you need atleast 2 to apply a penalty.
And here the build comes crawling. Its the Half-Orc barbarian Ninja shadowdancer of doom!
Shadowy Peevy (The preassure point abusing Raging barbarian)
Barbarian 1 (invulnrable rager) / Ninja 2 / Barbarian 2 / Shadow Dancer 3 / Barbarian 2
Half Orc: barbarian favored class
Str: 22 (+2 racial +4 belt)
Dex: 17 (+2 level)
Con: 12
Int: 8
wis: 10
cha: 13 (+1 level at 12)
HP: 22 + 5d8 +4d12 = 71
AC: 10 + 3(dex) + 7 (armor) +2 (amulet) +2 (ring) = 24
BAB: +8
Fort: 5 + 1 + 3= 9
Ref: 6 + 3 +3 = 12
Will: 2 + 0 + 3 = 5
Skills: +20 stealth, +14 intimidate, +15 acrobatics, +12 craft (alchemy)
Feats: Combat reflexes (level 1), dodge (level 3), mobility (level 5), two weapon fighting (level 7),
improved two wp fighting (level 9), (not taken yet extra rage or extra rage power, level 11)
Abilities: Sneak attack 1d6, poison use, 2 ki points, rage 20 rounds, fast movement, extreme endurance, DR 2/-, lesser beast totem, reckless abandon, toothy (racial trait), preassure points, darkvision 90 feet, hide in plain sight, evasion, uncanny dodge, fast stealth (rogue talent), shadow illusion, summon shadow, coherent rage (trait), heirloom weapon (orc dubble axe)
Items: cloak of resistance +3 (9k), amulet of natural armor +2 (4k), +4 str belt (16k), +3 shadow chain shirt (12.75k), ring of protection +2 (8k), handy haversack (2k), +2/+2 orc dubble axe (16k)
15*large scorpion venom (3k), 20*medium scorpion venom (3k)
When raging: 91 hp, ac 19, using reckless abandon, and flanking
Attacks:
Orc dubble axe +22/+17 for 1d8+1d6+10 with large scorpion poison (fort 17)
Orc dubble axe +22/+17 for 1d8+1d6+6 with medium scorpion poison (fort 14)
Bite +16 for 1d4+1d6+4
claws (feet): +16/+16 for 1d6+1d6+4
Shadow: +12 (touch) for 1d6 str damage.
Strategy is to sneak close to the bbeg or his pet mage, then stand right beside him and open from hips with sneak attaks (denying dex on first attack)
On average vs a 24 ac opponent and using 2 times large sc. Venom vs monsters with high fort, and one of each vs players and such (asuming shadow hits on a 2+). We deal
9.4 average strenght damage including the poisons vs a guy with +9 fort. and
8.95 average str damage including poisons vs a guy with +13 fort.
Two times a day he can also gain one extra attack from ki points, raisng the average str damage with 0.95 to 10.35 and 9.9 respectively. And raising damage with about 17.9.
With a lucky maximum of 17 str damage, instant killing quite a lot of characters.
His raw damage on a full attack will be 77.7 DPR, actually not as bad as i feared. But his survivability is very dependant upon using Hips and not being the first target of anything. And after opening, the bbeg will have -4 or -5 to hit and damage, due to the str loss, whick makes up for the rather poor AC he has. He can also make his own poisons, which should keep him fully stocked with them.
My Main focus when doing this build was: Str damage build, attain a viable build as fast as possible, end level is 12, but the spec is made for level 10.
The next 2 levels can be either barbarian, ninja or 1 level more in shadowdancer. But that needs to be capped at 4 becouse of the BAB. I would probably take barbarian 1 (gaining superstitous rage power), and shadowdancer 1, for the cool abilities there.
My best guess will be that versus any bbeg with class levels then if Shadowy Peevy gets the first attacks (he should becouse of HiPS), then if the bbeg is fighter oriented peevy has reduced him so much he can win even with no more drain, ensuring the fighter does almost no damage. If its a caster based bbeg, then he will probably have a low fort save, and maybe lower than +9, giving Peevy a great chance of instant killing him with just str damage.
Shadow: +12 (touch) for 1d6 str damage.
That is incorrect for the shadow. The shadow companion gets YOUR bab which is +8/+3 meaning that it is +12/+7 touch attack for 1d6/1d6 strength damage.
i cant believe you are actually correct in that. Holygod
if we assume 14 touch ac as in my example above.
Then that would put shadowy peevy at an average of 11.85 str vs. an opponent with +9 fort, and 11.4 vs one with +13 fort save.
If he boosts with a ki point its 12.8 and 12.35 respectively.
And his max str damage in one turn would then be a monstrous 23. This means he has great chances of instant disabling any opponent in one turn.
Just walk over with HiPS on, then full attack and kill him, make a 5 foot step and hide in the shadow of his corpse. His minions wouldnt even be able to attack you. Its kinda insane really.
i cant believe you are actually correct in that. Holygod
if we assume 14 touch ac as in my example above.
Then that would put shadowy peevy at an average of 11.85 str vs. an opponent with +9 fort, and 11.4 vs one with +13 fort save.
If he boosts with a ki point its 12.8 and 12.35 respectively.
And his max str damage in one turn would then be a monstrous 23. This means he has great chances of instant disabling any opponent in one turn.
Just walk over with HiPS on, then full attack and kill him, make a 5 foot step and hide in the shadow of his corpse. His minions wouldnt even be able to attack you. Its kinda insane really.
I'm just trying to understand how we get to 23 str damage. What I can see:
- 1 str per attack using pressure points for 2 str- 7 str on average from 2 touch attacks by shadow companion
This gives us a total of 9 so far for the round. Could you please show me the breakdown for the rest with the poison and other things to get to 23 assuming the creature fails its fort save.
Ah.. I just read over again and saw you mention maximum possible damage and extra attack from ki. So that would be 12 from the shadow companion and 3 from your pressure points for a total of 15. Looking at the venoms I see they do 1d2 strength damage which I guess could add a maximum of 6 for a total of 21. I still seem to be falling 2 short. Where am I going wrong?
ofcourse i can show you.
He is using a dubble orc axe and dual wielding giving him 4 attacks. Then he has 1 bite attack and 2 claw attacks from his feet. All of these 7 attacks can sneak attack, asuming he is flanking ofc, and each will then give 1 str damage (the average is calculated so we include the chance to hit the monster). The shadow will then attack 2 times for 1d6 str damage, maxing out at 12. And then peevy has large scorpion venom on one blade of his axe, and medium scorpion venom on the other, each dealing 1d2 str damage if you fail the fort save, and as it isnt the same poison they actually stack.
so if we include everything (asuming hits and failed saves) its
7 + 2d6 + 2d2 = 23 maximum
the average is calculated as
2*0.95 + 2*0.7 + 3*0.65 (natural attacks) + 0.95*3.5 (shadow) + 0.7*3.5(shadow) + 0.2*1.5 (med poison) + 0.35*1.5 (large poison) = 12.8 average str damage.
ofcourse i can show you.
He is using a dubble orc axe and dual wielding giving him 4 attacks. Then he has 1 bite attack and 2 claw attacks from his feet. All of these 7 attacks can sneak attack, asuming he is flanking ofc, and each will then give 1 str damage (the average is calculated so we include the chance to hit the monster). The shadow will then attack 2 times for 1d6 str damage, maxing out at 12. And then peevy has large scorpion venom on one blade of his axe, and medium scorpion venom on the other, each dealing 1d2 str damage if you fail the fort save, and as it isnt the same poison they actually stack.
so if we include everything (asuming hits and failed saves) its
7 + 2d6 + 2d2 = 23 maximumthe average is calculated as
2*0.95 + 2*0.7 + 3*0.65 (natural attacks) + 0.95*3.5 (shadow) + 0.7*3.5(shadow) + 0.2*1.5 (med poison) + 0.35*1.5 (large poison) = 12.8 average str damage.
The Orc Double Axe is a two handed weapon that allows double attacks so I don't think you can get 4 attacks there unless I'm mistaken.
I hadn't thought about using a bite attack for pressure points. That is quite clever.
I've looked up Lesser Beast Totem and I would have assumed that would have been for two arm rather than leg attacks which means you wouldn't get both the axe attacks and the claw attacks. Unfortunately, the APG doesn't explain if this totem attack can be used on either legs or arms. Is there any clarification around this so we know one way or the other?
ofcourse i can show you.
He is using a dubble orc axe and dual wielding giving him 4 attacks. Then he has 1 bite attack and 2 claw attacks from his feet. All of these 7 attacks can sneak attack, asuming he is flanking ofc, and each will then give 1 str damage (the average is calculated so we include the chance to hit the monster). The shadow will then attack 2 times for 1d6 str damage, maxing out at 12. And then peevy has large scorpion venom on one blade of his axe, and medium scorpion venom on the other, each dealing 1d2 str damage if you fail the fort save, and as it isnt the same poison they actually stack.
so if we include everything (asuming hits and failed saves) its
7 + 2d6 + 2d2 = 23 maximumthe average is calculated as
2*0.95 + 2*0.7 + 3*0.65 (natural attacks) + 0.95*3.5 (shadow) + 0.7*3.5(shadow) + 0.2*1.5 (med poison) + 0.35*1.5 (large poison) = 12.8 average str damage.
which isn't that impressive when you consider some of the bigger critters have 35-40STR. often the ones with huge fort saves too.
Poison immunity or resistance will also slow this down.
as it stands, not too shabby but relies on several things going right.
2 claw feet attacks is a bit cheese for me RAW or not.
Plus if BBEG knows you've used this tactic in the past could easily have himself a source of triggered restoration or other way to reduce ability dmg.
all in all tis a nice trick but requires alot of mucking around
and of course to toally negate this tactic GM need only have his creatures move away from he ninja each round, taking the AoO but getting away from the full attack.
I agree that the dual claws on feet is cheezy even if it is RAW, but this was an optimization post right? besides it would work in the society, even if i probably wouldnt use it myself.
The Orc dubble axe works just the same as dualwielding, counting as the light weapon in off hand to reduce the penalty's. He then recieves 2 main hand attacks, and 2 offhand attacks becouse of the feats and the 2wp fighting.
While i agree its cheesy, it would be possible to tone it down a little, and still be usefull. Even with complete poison resistance he should still deal -10 str per round, reducing both attacks and damage rolls from the bbeg with 5. Quite effective for a ninja barbarian i would say. Besides that i dont think his damage is all that bad.
As for the moving away thing, if he cant see the rogue becouse of the HiPS, then its kinda hard to move away IMO without to much metagaming from the gm.
Use the rogue talents from Shadowdancer to get Ray of Enfeeblement?
Get a spell-storing weapon?
Ray of enfeeblement is pointless for this idea because it is a penalty and penalties can't lower you below 1. So once the strength damage and penalty together would drop the target below 1 strength the penalty starts disappearing. It allows you to get to minimum faster, but doesn't actually contribute to dropping them due to strength damage.
Chill touch as a major arcane talent or from some other source would still be valid though and a good idea. Yes it allows a save throw, but those are failed sometimes and even if not it gives you a touch attack that deals negative energy damage that can be used multiple times in a round. This helps you get past several of the problems with two weapon fighting builds especially if used as an off hand attack.
Just to drop in, the shadowdancers shadow companion can only make 1 melee touch attack to deal strength damage a turn regardless of bab. So a shadow companion would do at most 6 str damage a turn.
The strength damage attack is either a natural attack or a special ability attack(that would require a standard action to use). Either way, higher bab would not give iterative attacks.
For further confirmation, the greater shadow has 6 bab and only gets 1 attack in his stat block.
On a side note, a ninja could have both pressure points and crippling strike and deal 3 str damage per hit correct?
I'm not sure I agree with you about the number of attacks. The Shadow Companion is similar but not the same to a Shadow but has replacement rules including using your character's BAB. I'm well aware that Greater Shadows only get one attack but the Shadow Companion does not use that creature even as a template before adjustments. So its attacks should be for example +6/+1 or +8/+3 if that is what your character's BAB is, not +6 or +8 as you are indirectly inferring.
Regarding your side note, I believe you are right about crippling strike. However, you would not be able to pick it up until level 13 if you wanted your shadow companion first as you need 3 levels of Shadowdancer to get your companion and 10 levels of ninja to pick that ability up.
you may disagree but I am not sure you have much reason to. The general rules are that only manufactured weapons and weapons that mimick manufactured weapons(unarmed strikes) get iterative attacks. Your shadow companion is not using any of these. He is making a special attack touch attack. It is a SU ability which are traditionally standard actions unless they specify otherwise.
If what you are saying is correct, then we have 2 rules contradicting with each other. The rules clearly say that the shadow companion gets the character's BAB - that means iterative attacks. On the other hand, you are saying that the rules state that you only get iterative attacks for manufactured weapons and unarmed strikes.
Just for my piece of mind, can you tell me where to find this rule so I can read over it? Thanks in advance.
If what you are saying is correct, then we have 2 rules contradicting with each other. The rules clearly say that the shadow companion gets the character's BAB - that means iterative attacks. On the other hand, you are saying that the rules state that you only get iterative attacks for manufactured weapons and unarmed strikes.
No we have nothing that is contradictory.
Monsters have BAB -- their BAB doesn't change how natural attacks work. A Balor with a BAB of +20 that attacks with his two claws still only gets two attacks despite having a high BAB.
The shadow's strength draining attack is a natural attack for the shadow -- as such what its BAB is doesn't matter -- it only gets one attack based on the fact it is using a natural attack.
Now if the shadow was to pick up a ghost touch long sword and use it then it would get iterative attacks.
Go look in the combat section on natural attacks.
No we have nothing that is contradictory.
Monsters have BAB -- their BAB doesn't change how natural attacks work. A Balor with a BAB of +20 that attacks with his two claws still only gets two attacks despite having a high BAB.
The shadow's strength draining attack is a natural attack for the shadow -- as such what its BAB is doesn't matter -- it only gets one attack based on the fact it is using a natural attack.
Now if the shadow was to pick up a ghost touch long sword and use it then it would get iterative attacks.
Go look in the combat section on natural attacks.
A shadow is a monster that may use a natural attack just like the Balor. A shadow companion is not a standard shadow and uses the character's BAB not it's own monster BAB to attack.
I will check out the combat section on natural attacks as you suggest to see what is written.
No we have nothing that is contradictory.
Monsters have BAB -- their BAB doesn't change how natural attacks work. A Balor with a BAB of +20 that attacks with his two claws still only gets two attacks despite having a high BAB.
The shadow's strength draining attack is a natural attack for the shadow -- as such what its BAB is doesn't matter -- it only gets one attack based on the fact it is using a natural attack.
Now if the shadow was to pick up a ghost touch long sword and use it then it would get iterative attacks.
Go look in the combat section on natural attacks.
A shadow is a monster that may use a natural attack just like the Balor. A shadow companion is not a standard shadow and uses the character's BAB not it's own monster BAB to attack.
I will check out the combat section on natural attacks as you suggest to see what is written.
Sorry but by your logic a wizards familiar which shares its master BAB would get iterative attacks with it natural weapons and this is just not the case.
a natural weapon can never have an iterative attack by definition they use different mechanics
and a SU effect unless otherwise stated is always a standard action
Also would rod's of withering be useful here?
I am unsure how the rod works btw. Can you make a full attack with the rod of withering?
The rod of withering certainly looks powerful doing 1d4 strength and 1d4 constituion damage per touch attack. However, it costs 25000gp. By the time you can afford that you are high level which means the monsters are a high level and the DC 17 fort save is a little underwhelming against high level monsters.
The rod of withering would work -- it's a weapon that has an alternate damage type (which wouldn't be augmented by such things as greater magic weapon since it is a set damage) -- if the opponent fails the save throws.
The shadow's touch attack is a natural attack that has an "always on" supernatural ability that causes strength damage when the touch hits (otherwise it deals no damage). If it was an 'activated' supernatural ability it would be listed as such under special abilities or special attacks. Consider it in the same category as an aura or constant power (like the maralith's constant true seeing). In an anti-magic field a shadow would be much less scary (since the power is supernaturally based instead of extra-ordinary like a lantern archon's light rays).
In no event would the shadow's attack be considered a weapon attack -- which means no iterative attacks:
Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.
If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.
Each creature has a base attack bonus and it represents its skill in combat. As a character gains levels or Hit Dice, his base attack bonus improves. When a creature's base attack bonus reaches +6, +11, or +16, he receives an additional attack in combat when he takes a full-attack action (which is one type of full-round action—see Combat).
At 3rd level, a shadowdancer can summon a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow's alignment matches that of the shadowdancer, and the creature cannot create spawn. The summoned shadow receives a +4 bonus on Will saves made to halve the damage from positive channeled energy and the shadow cannot be turned or commanded. This shadow serves as a companion to the shadowdancer and can communicate intelligibly with the shadowdancer. This shadow has a number of hit points equal to half the shadowdancer's total. The shadow uses the shadowdancer's base attack bonus and base save bonuses.
A shadow's touch deals 1d6 points of Strength damage to a living creature. This is a negative energy effect. A creature dies if this Strength damage equals or exceeds its actual Strength score.
Please note that the shadow's touch isn't a supernatural ability -- the supernatural ability is the fact it deals strength damage.
Just like the create spawn is a supernatural ability... that simply tells us the type of ability it is -- the shadow isn't forced to spend a standard action to create spawn or cause its touch to deal strength damage -- much like the paladin doesn't have to spend a standard action each time it makes a save throw to add its charisma bonus to its save throw.
The shadow's touch attack is a natural attack that has an "always on" supernatural ability that causes strength damage when the touch hits (otherwise it deals no damage). If it was an 'activated' supernatural ability it would be listed as such under special abilities or special attacks. Consider it in the same category as an aura or constant power (like the maralith's constant true seeing). In an anti-magic field a shadow would be much less scary (since the power is supernaturally based instead of extra-ordinary like a lantern archon's light rays).
In no event would the shadow's attack be considered a weapon attack -- which means no iterative attacks:
Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack....
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier
Thank you for taking the time for putting this together. It looks like you are correct in your assessment of only 1 attack given the quotes you have provided.
Do you think there is any sort of magical simple weapon or item that would allow the shadow companion to gain an extra attack that uses its strength damage ability?
Also a shadow in an anti-magic field would wink out of existence because he is an incorporeal undead. So he would be especially non threatening in that situation.In an anti-magic field a shadow would be much less scary (since the power is supernaturally based instead of extra-ordinary like a lantern archon's light rays).
Completely wrong. Incorporeal is an extra-ordinary ability -- not a supernatural one.
Do you...
I'm not sure, but I think a channeling ghost touch weapon might do it.
I think a channeling ghost touch weapon might do it.
Conductive, do you mean? If so, it's arguable if it would work at all since the shadow's ability does not seem to be use-activated. Even if you could conduct it through the weapon, though, it would be worthless since conductive can only be used once per round to channel an ability through the weapon. Even if it worked totally, though, it would hardly be useful, as you'd be attacking normal AC rather than touch AC. Even if you could afford a +3 conductive ghost touch weapon (a lot of gold for a level 12), and took a full BAB class besides your 3 levels of shadowdancer, it would attack at +16/+11/+6. Good luck hitting normal AC with either of those iteratives!
I was talking about a shadow not the shadow summoned by the shadowdancer specifically.
Also you fell into a slight trap on that one -- while it does use the word 'summon' in describing the ability (and the ability name) since it is a supernatural ability it isn't an actual conjuration(summoning) effect, unless explicitly stated as such. Supernaturals are odd powers in that respect (though if the GM says, "Too bad it works as a summoning effect and it blinks out until it moves out" then all bets are off as he's the GM) and don't necessarily follow the rules of the magic section unless they specifically state they do or have a reference such as, "This ability works as summon monster 5".
Please note that most familiars are 'summoned' in some way shape or form and don't wink out or lose their familiar status due to anti-magic fields (though they might lose access to some specific abilities while in such).
No it's not the joking I mind -- it's being incorrect about the rules is all. I think you are mistaking my technical post as being a pissy post -- it is not. I am simply spelling out the differences that make a huge difference in this case.
However on further investigation I see you are referring to an artifact that should have been taken out of the anti-magic spell description (since incorporality is completely unaffected by an anti-magic field due to being an extra-ordinary ability).
This is something that I believe JB has covered in a thread about alkenstar.
Just so we're all comapring the same thing
An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.
An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell's duration.
Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)
A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsider are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures' spell-like or supernatural abilities may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field.
Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field. Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.
Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.
Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.
Which creates a really funny situation where we can prove quantum physics work:
After all if the a greater shadow is half in and half out of an anti-magic field then he does and does not exist and does so in multiple places. In fact if he moves away he leaves part of himself behind which will reappear when the anti-magic field goes away.
Talk about awkward.