I've been contemplating adapting the Westeros setting of Game of Thrones for Pathfinder, and was wondering if anyone else had done any work on this? The only issues I see are scaling magic and revamping leadership to suit the flavor of the setting. I know Green Ronin has a system for the game, and a S&S d20 version, but it would be nice to stay with the Pathfinder system. If anyone has any thoughts, experiences, or feedback with this I'd appreciate it going forward.
The main issue I see is magic. GoT has magic but it's, well magic, not exactly common the way Pathfinder magic is. It almost qualifies for low magic.
I’m afraid I can’t offer an account based on experience, but there was an issue of Dragon (# 307), a little before 3.5 came out, that had an article suggesting how one might run a Westeros campaign. I prefer high-magic settings myself, so some of the things that stuck in my mind from reading the article are the suggestion that no spells above 4th-level be available, or even that NPC classes be used as base classes, and the core PC classes as prestige classes, effectively. It’s not a terribly long article, but it does translate some characters from the novels into game terms, which would give you an idea of how others have approached the problem of preserving the flavour. I’m not sure how much of an impact the differences between Pathfinder and late 3.0 would have given the restrictions the article suggests, but offhand I think things like rogue talents, witch hexes, and school powers (for inveterate wizard players like me) might add lovely fiddly bits to tweak characters while presenting magic in a lower key than an out-of-the-box Pathfinder game. I just thought I should mention it.
I’m afraid I can’t offer an account based on experience, but there was an issue of Dragon (# 307), a little before 3.5 came out, that had an article suggesting how one might run a Westeros campaign. I prefer high-magic settings myself, so some of the things that stuck in my mind from reading the article are the suggestion that no spells above 4th-level be available, or even that NPC classes be used as base classes, and the core PC classes as prestige classes, effectively. It’s not a terribly long article, but it does translate some characters from the novels into game terms, which would give you an idea of how others have approached the problem of preserving the flavour. I’m not sure how much of an impact the differences between Pathfinder and late 3.0 would have given the restrictions the article suggests, but offhand I think things like rogue talents, witch hexes, and school powers (for inveterate wizard players like me) might add lovely fiddly bits to tweak characters while presenting magic in a lower key than an out-of-the-box Pathfinder game. I just thought I should mention it.
This has come up before, and ypou may be able to find those threads (although searching is sometimes iffy at best). Having said that the thing to remember is that in westerns, there's just simply not as much magic. It's one of the major trappings of the setting in that magic is very hedge wizard at best, and one of the themes seems to be the return of magic. As such I would suggest going with an unearthed arcana route or similar for low magic, keeping only the classes that are not casters, and then the few casters would have to akin to the witch rather than wizard, and maybe an oracle instead of cleric (although the spells would have to be semi restricted to keep redirection and the like gone, if you want that much of the setting there). Generally most melee casters who get some magic would have to be changed a little (paladin doesn't fit but ranger does well, animal companion and all ala the Starks, but the spells would have to change out for something else). Mostly though the setting would be about social interaction and politics and then combat in that order, which I think is a bigger setting trope to deal with honestly.
We 'tried' to play the d20 version of GoT... but the game never got off the ground.
That said, I would recommend just playing THAT game. It's a bit different from the normal pathfinder/3.x rules.. but they are really AWESOME changes...
The things I remember the most was combat based... 1st armor had little to do with AC... it turned into damage Reduction. Shields improved the AC...
I also remember damage/Healing was much more 'lethal'. It looked like a LOT of fun, was sad that it didn't go anywhere....
Also a LOT of political intrigue rules. Gaining 'favor' with different individuals... but never knowing if you had more than the someone ELSE did...
That said, you COULD run Pathfinder rules just about anywhere... but I think it'd be more trouble than it's worth, and you'd miss out on a lot of the 'flavor' of the original books.
I've been contemplating adapting the Westeros setting of Game of Thrones for Pathfinder, and was wondering if anyone else had done any work on this? The only issues I see are scaling magic and revamping leadership to suit the flavor of the setting. I know Green Ronin has a system for the game, and a S&S d20 version, but it would be nice to stay with the Pathfinder system. If anyone has any thoughts, experiences, or feedback with this I'd appreciate it going forward.
I would say that magic is the only real hurdle to adapting this setting as is. It would be relatively easy to simply remodel GoT to include PF magic, but you would lose much of the low magic flavor.
I suggest setting it up as a very low magic campaign. Limit main casters to bard progression at most, and keep NPC's levels in check to reinforce the lack of high level magic.
An associated challenge is that you should do away with life restoring magic, so you may have to address lethality issues. Of course Westeros is a very lethal place, with more executions and poisonings than battlefield deaths.
Game on.
I'd say ban all magic based things personally, but slowly allow a little to leak in here and there, as there is obviously some magics.
Like the sword Jon Snow gets would certainly be a +1 sword.
If you want to run a combat heavy low magic campaign I would check out a line of proucts called Iron Heroes.
And of course the Game of Thrones d20 RPG.
Westeros does seem very low magic but places like Quarth and Asshai seem to possess considerably higher levels of magic. Some of the blood magic that Melisandre exhibits is also quite impressive. Buff spells I think can stay as is, but a lot of the conjuration, teleportation, and blasts would be removed.
An alternative I've been considering, is to set the campaign ~300 years in the past, just before the coming of Aegon the Conqueror, a time when magic was far more ubiquitious. This would have the dual benefit of making the magic system easier to mitigate, and the Targaryen invasion would be an excellent backdrop for such a campaign, with the potential to develop an entirely alternate historical timeline based on the pc's actions.
One thing I will definitely incorporate from GoT d20 is influence points per level derived from charisma and station. If nothing else I'll be glad to see charisma be a more effective and useful attribute overall, and this fits the theme of the setting perfectly.
We bounce back and forth on level of magic in our campaigns, but after we finish Carrion Crown, everyone thought a gritty low-magic intrigue heavy Westeros campaign would be a nice change of pace.
Westeros does seem very low magic but places like Quarth and Asshai seem to possess considerably higher levels of magic. Some of the blood magic that Melisandre exhibits is also quite impressive. Buff spells I think can stay as is, but a lot of the conjuration, teleportation, and blasts would be removed.
A lot of that "powerful magic" of the east is exaggeration even in the books. There was some impressive stuff, but that could be considered "ritual magic" or something, with long casting times and cooperative casting. You needn't give PCs or NPCs PF magic because of it.
Westeros does seem very low magic but places like Quarth and Asshai seem to possess considerably higher levels of magic. Some of the blood magic that Melisandre exhibits is also quite impressive. Buff spells I think can stay as is, but a lot of the conjuration, teleportation, and blasts would be removed.A lot of that "powerful magic" of the east is exaggeration even in the books. There was some impressive stuff, but that could be considered "ritual magic" or something, with long casting times and cooperative casting. You needn't give PCs or NPCs PF magic because of it.
True, there are mentions of rituals similiar to planar binding, and the way Melisandre used shadows to kill are among the most potent mentioned. That would seem to indicate 5th-6th level as the high mark. But if set in the past, in the age of Valyrian sorcerors, the bar could probably be set higher. It could also be played that higher magic is possible but has yet to be discovered. I will likely make casting classes prestige classes and tune their available spells and spell levels in line with the setting. School access should also be limited I think, perhaps even to the school of specialization, as magic is harder to grasp and come by. But the idea that there is the potential for higher magic, yet undiscovered, has some possibilities as well.
You could set your game in a slight future, just after the books, and magic is back up in the world.
Even at high magic it never seemed like there were mages walking around flinging magic missiles. Actually most of it seems fairly "Divine" magic save the direct Cure spells. Lots of ritual, reagents, and enchanment of items.
Another thing to keep in mind Song of Ice and Fire also falls quite often into 1st through 6th or 5th level. It is quite "mortal" with a few "plot" based higher level effects. Even a "Man" was not using much more then low level disguise magic compared to a world like Golarion. Jamie Lanister would likely top out at 6th, as he can slaughter many men but isn't the unstoppable meat grinder that a 10+ level Pathfinder Fighter is to "normal" (2nd or 3rd level) Knights.
I'd cut out most Arcane casters. Divine casters are better choice for flavor.
I'd look at removing certain Schools of magic or sub-schools. Evocation, most Conjuration save for Summoning(very rare at that) and Creation.
Pathfinder gives Valyrian "mages" the ability to craft some really cool stuff without even being actual casters through Master Craftsman. It would be lack of knowing those Crafting feats and the loss of Dragon magic that would make such things impossible.
The GoT d20 RPG was a really magnificent product. Sadly, GoO went belly-up right after it was finished, but it manages to use d20 rules and make them work with a gritty low (or no) magic setting, which is a pretty impressive feat in and of itself. The changes to combat are interesting and make for a more... historical feel, I would say. Armor provides DR and shields are much more important; they provide a hefty AC bonus, or the attacker can choose to ignore the AC bonus and deal with additional DR from the shield (essentially just smashing through it).
I also think the Green Ronin ASOIAF RPG (SIFRP, as they call it) is excellent. Trying to fit PF into Westeros will cause similar problems to trying to fit it into Middle Earth: the feel and style of the setting just doesn't lend itself to 'normal' d20 rules.
As others have said, if you can track down a copy of the d20 game of thrones book this is absolutely your best bet. All the work is done for you, you just need to convert it to pathfinder. Seriously the work it will take to find this book will be a hundreth of the effort required to do this yourself.
Not all systems are right every setting or game style. First off, pretty much all the magic in Pathfinder is anachronistic. The style of the magic, it's consequences and method of access is completely wrong.
Second, Pathfinder is weak on political intrigue for rules. I know some people see those kinds of rules as "rollplaying", but I've run ASOIAF (Green Ronin) campaign and I felt that the Intrigue rules helped create tension for those scenes, just like the rules for combat can help create tension and excitement in Pathfinder.
Third, combat can be more "dramatic". Losing doesn't automatically mean death, it just means you lost. Also, there is a mechanic for a player to avoid death as long as they don't spend it foolishly.
I'm on the Green Ronin boards, same user name. I've been involved with the system for 2 years so I'm more than happy to answer questions, offer insight and provide suggestions for hacks that I and others have used in their games.