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Ok according to the rules an oracle with the clouded vision curse moves at half speed until it hit level 5.
Here is the PRD link to hampered movement.
Now as you can see poor visibility is listed as one of the reasons that you get hampered movement, now since an oracle with the clouded vision curse can only see up to 30 feet (until he hits 5th level) that means that all of it's moves are always considered hampered movement right?
So do you think that this was intentional or not?
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Ok according to the rules an oracle with the clouded vision curse moves at half speed until it hit level 5.
Here is the PRD link to hampered movement.
Now as you can see poor visibility is listed as one of the reasons that you get hampered movement, now since an oracle with the clouded vision curse can only see up to 30 feet (until he hits 5th level) that means that all of it's moves are always considered hampered movement right?So do you think that this was intentional or not?
Nope because they have darkvision.
Nope because they have darkvision.Ok according to the rules an oracle with the clouded vision curse moves at half speed until it hit level 5.
Here is the PRD link to hampered movement.
Now as you can see poor visibility is listed as one of the reasons that you get hampered movement, now since an oracle with the clouded vision curse can only see up to 30 feet (until he hits 5th level) that means that all of it's moves are always considered hampered movement right?So do you think that this was intentional or not?
They have darkvision 30 ft, not darkvision 60 ft
Ok according to the rules an oracle with the clouded vision curse moves at half speed until it hit level 5.Where does it say that?
I am not sure if you ask about the double movement or the 5th oracle but:
1) when an oracle (with this curse) hits 5th level they can see up to 60 ft.2) As you can see from the PRD link i provided your movement is hampered when you are in poor visibility, and poor visibility means seeing less than 60 ft.
So what i am asking is that:
Do you think that when they were writing the clouded vision curse they were thinking about hampered movement (and balanced the benefits of this curse with that in mind), or they simply forgot about that rule (and this oracle curse has more drawbacks than they wanted to give it)?
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Here is the PRD link to hampered movement.
I suppose you refer to the part about "poor visibility".
Poor visibility isn't clearly defined anywhere AFAIK, but most spell that create poor visibility reduce visibility to 5 feet or less.The Oracle has 30' visibility, sufficient to "plot" a normal move in advance.
I would limit his/her capacity to run in unknown terrain, not his capacity to walk.
2) As you can see from the PRD link i provided your movement is hampered when you are in poor visibility, and poor visibility means seeing less than 60 ft.
You have a link to support that?
Here is the PRD link to hampered movement.
I suppose you refer to the part about "poor visibility".
Poor visibility isn't clearly defined anywhere AFAIK, but most spell that create poor visibility reduce visibility to 5 feet or less.The Oracle has 30' visibility, sufficient to "plot" a normal move in advance.
I would limit his/her capacity to run in unknown terrain, not his capacity to walk.
2) As you can see from the PRD link i provided your movement is hampered when you are in poor visibility, and poor visibility means seeing less than 60 ft.
You have a link to support that?
I had quite a trouble to find a definition of poor visibility but i did.
core p.42460 feet due to reduced visibility conditions, they might
become lost. Characters traveling through fog, snow, or a
downpour might easily lose the ability to see any landmarks
not in their immediate vicinity. Similarly, characters
traveling
at night might be at risk, too, depending
on the
quality
of their light sources, the amount of moonlight,
and whether they have darkvision or low-light vision.
Sorry i don't provide a link but i couldn't find that passage in the PRD (due to PRD being somewhat different organised than the core book).
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I can see where the PRD says "poor visibility" doubles movement costs, but I can't find anything that specifies that 30' of vision equals "poor visibility".
I can see what you're driving at, but "poor visibility" is a very broad term. Why 30' of visibility, specifically?
*EDIT NINJA'D*
Okay, I never thought to look in the "Getting Lost" section, but I can see what you're saying, now. Since it's not in the same section, I'm pretty sure it was unintentional, but you're right by RAW. A good candidate for the FAQ, either way.
I can see where the PRD says "poor visibility" doubles movement costs, but I can't find anything that specifies that 30' of vision equals "poor visibility".
I can see what you're driving at, but "poor visibility" is a very broad term. Why 30' of visibility, specifically?
*EDIT NINJA'D*
Okay, I never thought to look in the "Getting Lost" section, but I can see what you're saying, now. Since it's not in the same section, I'm pretty sure it was unintentional, but you're right by RAW. A good candidate for the FAQ, either way.
You won't believe how much time i spent looking through the core book and PRD, trying different words in different search engines to finally find that.
Anyway that's what i also wanted to know. What is the RAI of the oracle's clouded vision curse? So should we all try hitting the FAQ button on this?|
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They have darkvision 30 ft, not darkvision 60 ftNope because they have darkvision.Ok according to the rules an oracle with the clouded vision curse moves at half speed until it hit level 5.
Here is the PRD link to hampered movement.
Now as you can see poor visibility is listed as one of the reasons that you get hampered movement, now since an oracle with the clouded vision curse can only see up to 30 feet (until he hits 5th level) that means that all of it's moves are always considered hampered movement right?So do you think that this was intentional or not?
Yes, and when they move they are able to continue seeing 30 ft in front of them.
Where are you getting less than 60 ft is poor viability?
They can see perfectly fine in the distance they can move. Most rooms are less than 30 feet, so technically in those situations you couldn't see more than 30 feet, however that would in no way hamper your movement.
Limited viability is something like being in a fog or dark room.
Where are you getting less than 60 ft is poor viability?
The answer to that is in the 7th post of this thread.
If we do consider Oracles to have hampered movement in this way, then we must also consider small rooms to cause this effect. (I'm serious here) Oracles' clouded vision, as per the description of poor visibility, means that they will lose track of landmarks and have issue navigating, but the fact that the poor visibility in this text doesn't reference hampered movement leaves me dubious. If nothing else, Oracles would quickly adapt to their limited vision and move with confidence at speeds where they can't always see more than blurs ahead of them. It's not unreasonable to assume that as long as they feel the divine protection of their God, they will move boldy forward, even if they don't have a plan about what is ahead of them outside their field of vision.
Keep in mind what I just said there: They can't see outside of those 30 feet, so even though they can get there in the round, they don't yet know what is there. This means they probably can't make a bee line to a desired location They have to find it once they get there. This leaves some interesting mechanical bugs. (Do you know which blob in the distance is a friend or foe? do you get included in visual based effects outside your field of vision, like some illusions?) These questions need to be addressed more directly.
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I have a serious myopia. If I remove my glasses I cant recognize people at a distance way lover than 30 feet. I can see the general layout of the terrain around me for a way longer distance but I will have problems with relatively small obstacles like potholes, uneven pieces of sidewalk and so on.
The oracle clouded vision is very hard to judge as we don't experience anything that can really compare.
About Magnu123 small room example. How often your mother has said "don't run in the house"?
As long as we (in RL) move in a know house or from a location we see to another location we can see (through a door, a hallway and so on, we go at "full speed", but if we need to navigate in a unknown house we slow down and check our surrounding to locate the next door and passage.
It is not difficult terrain in game terms as we can easily do a few step to change position within a room, but our movement is hampered when we have to move around.
Even in your own hose, you have never turned a corner in a hallway and found a familiar coming from the other direction, with the risk of bumping into him?
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That type of ruling also means every character in a dungeon moves at 1/2 speed unless they have a 60 foot light source rather than torches or lights spells. (Low light and darkvision being an exception to that of course.) Also having enough different light sources spread out could alleviate the 1/2 movement.
It seems like a pain to implement and track, but if you want to do it it needs to be consistent rather than just screwing with the oracle.
That type of ruling also means every character in a dungeon moves at 1/2 speed unless they have a 60 foot light source rather than torches or lights spells. (Low light and darkvision being an exception to that of course.) Also having enough different light sources spread out could alleviate the 1/2 movement.
It seems like a pain to implement and track, but if you want to do it it needs to be consistent rather than just screwing with the oracle.
I suspect you mean a non-lit dungeon (something like a sewer or undergound cave or an actual dungeon), if yes then you do get hampered movement unless you have low-light vision or darkvision 60 ft. Special vision does matter.
Are you sure you're not confusing tactical movement with overland movement?
I know what you mean but can you find anywhere else in the core book what does that poor visibility means?
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Here's the thing though- Have you ever played in a game where a GM enforced this as you are reading it? I haven't, nor have I run games that way. Do you think your gaming experience was hindered somehow all these years until you found a niche rule about getting lost? I think it would be a bigger problem for the experience of playing the game to sit down and track various light radius every time a PC or NPC tries to move in a situation where the only light is something they have provided with a radius of less than 60 feet.
It's there. Use it if you want. I just can't see it being worth the trouble of implementing outside of special circumstances.
It hasn't came up more than once (i don't play tabletop DnD for long) and at that time we didn't know about that.
But the thing isn't about if it's a good rule or not, the rule is there there is no question about it.
The question is if they were considering about this rule when they were making the clouded vision curse and thus this specific curse is balanced and intented to use with this rule or not (assuming this rule is used).
Here's the thing though- Have you ever played in a game where a GM enforced this as you are reading it? I haven't, nor have I run games that way. Do you think your gaming experience was hindered somehow all these years until you found a niche rule about getting lost? I think it would be a bigger problem for the experience of playing the game to sit down and track various light radius every time a PC or NPC tries to move in a situation where the only light is something they have provided with a radius of less than 60 feet.
It's there. Use it if you want. I just can't see it being worth the trouble of implementing outside of special circumstances.
Also i personally like this rule because it makes the special type of vision matters and i think that the races that have special type of vision should get something out of it.
The question is if they were considering about this rule when they were making the clouded vision curse and thus this specific curse is balanced and intented to use with this rule or not (assuming this rule is used).
I'm fairly certain that it wasn't considered, and it isn't an intended consequence of the clouded vision curse. This way, clouded vision both makes you almost-blind AND hampers your movement more than the lame curse ever did.
(it would especially suck for my life oracle since his clouded vision curse isn't progressing :p)
The question is if they were considering about this rule when they were making the clouded vision curse and thus this specific curse is balanced and intented to use with this rule or not (assuming this rule is used).I'm fairly certain that it wasn't considered, and it isn't an intended consequence of the clouded vision curse. This way, clouded vision both makes you almost-blind AND hampers your movement more than the lame curse ever did.
(it would especially suck for my life oracle since his clouded vision curse isn't progressing :p)
I have a friend who thinks that too, i on the other hand am not so sure that's why i am asking other poeple's opinion and hoping for a dev answer.
(dual cursed oracle?)
(dual cursed oracle?)
Yep. Dual-cursed with the wasting and clouded vision curses. :)
By this logic, all movement that takes place in rooms smaller than 60x60 (or without a window) is considered hampered movement.
By this logic, all movement that takes place in rooms smaller than 60x60 (or without a window) is considered hampered movement.though the diagonal in a 59 by 59 windowless room is still greater than 60, so unhampered movement might be possible. ;p
You're right, if you start your turn near one of the corners, you would have full movement, but if you start closer to the middle you'll mysteriously be reduced to half movement. That makes no logical sense.
They really should base the speed reduction on whether you move out of the area that you can see at the start of your movement. If you can see the square you are moving to, you move at full speed. If you cannot see the square that you are moving to, then you are slowed to half speed. Would a house rule (or official rule) like this address the issue?
They really should base the speed reduction on whether you move out of the area that you can see at the start of your movement. If you can see the square you are moving to, you move at full speed. If you cannot see the square that you are moving to, then you are slowed to half speed. Would a house rule (or official rule) like this address the issue?
I've seen people run around corners pretty fast, but I don't think they had x-ray vision. Solid walls reduce line of sight, so they have to be taken into account. The main problem that I see is that if you determine "poor visibility" at the start of someones turn, it produces unrealistic movement.
I think we move away from describing the vision of the character but rather the relationship between squares, you might get to a better rule.
Poor Visibility: If an adjacent square has concealment, that square costs double the normal movement.
Using a definition like that, Fog Cloud becomes difficult to move through, but walking around your house on a clear day is normal.