OK so, had something come up in a session tonight I would like some clarification on if you could. With the Magus class bein the first true Gish class in PF and bein the first to be able to attack and cast the same round. I have two scenarios I would like to know if they work, if not why, and if they do how, if at all, do they modify each other
Scenario #1:
Magus declares fighting defensively
Takes a swing with his weapon at -6 (-2 from spell combat/TWF, -4 from fighting defensively)
attempts to cast a spell
makes concentration check to be able to cast the spell in melee.
casts the spell, if its a spell that has an attack roll then it two takes the same -6 penalty as above.
before next round AoO is provoked and Magus makes AoO at -6 attack.
Scenario #2
Magus declares Fighting Defensively
Magus moves into range (10 ft movement), attempts to cast a spell
makes concentration check.
No attack roll on this spell so it goes off.
AoO provoked before next turn, Magus makes AoO at -6 penalty.
The ruling at the table that was given by the GM was that You Cannot Fight Defensively and Cast defensively in the same round. after game it was discussed and stated that if it would be allow you would take the -4 from fighting defensively on the concentration checks as well. To me that doesnt sound right as fighting defensively specifically modifies attack rolls. And with this bein the first time Ive ever seen both attempted to be used together I was unsure if theres anything that stops it.
Thanks in advance for your help.
|
You can only fight defensively if you make an attack or full attack, so #2 doesn't work.
edit: Provided that your GM allows you to fight defensively with spell combat (which it could be argued is a different full-round action than full attack and doesn't have a "Fighting Defensively" entry), I don't see a problem with #1. Both combat options have costs that don't necessarily interact with each other, although the magus can take an additional attack penalty to enhance his concentration if he chooses (for example, -2 spell combat, -4 fighting defensively, -3 to add +3 to his concentration check, for a total attack penalty of -9). I agree you have to declare options that will penalise your attack rolls before making your first attack in the round, which you have done.
Your DM is of course free to house rule the cast defensively and fight defensively but that's what it is a house rule.
The only legal problem i could see is the one that Starglim mentioned, although i personally don't see this as problem but i can one argue (legally) otherwise.
Casting Defensively is not an action on its own. It is a modification of an action, much like power attack is. There is not rules precedent for casting defensively taking an action.
Your two scenarios are separate entities. #1 is possible, #2 not so much. The -4 penalty would have no effect on the concentration check as they are different (attack roll vs concentration check, both use d20s but are much different).
You can only fight defensively if you make an attack or full attack, so #2 doesn't work.
+1. You can't gain the benefits of "fighting defensively" without.. you know.. fighting. That's called Total Defense and is completely different.
From what it says in the Core Rules about cast defensively:
Casting Defensively: If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a concentration check (DC 15 + double the level of the spell you're casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.
This would apply to spells of any casting length: swift action spells, full round action spells, standard spells, free spells etc.
This would apply to spells of any casting length: swift action spells, full round action spells, standard spells, free spells etc.
You are almost right, when casting spells with a casting time of a swift* action you don't provoke AoO for casting a spell, ergo you don't have to cast defensively.
*whether you quicken the spell or the spell's original casting time is swift.
|
... edit: Provided that your GM allows you to fight defensively with spell combat (which it could be argued is a different full-round action than full attack and doesn't have a "Fighting Defensively" entry)...
You can Fight Defensively as a standard Action of as a full-round action (the text of which states you can Fight Defensively when taking a 'full-attack action'). The question Starglim mentions here is whether Spell Combat is its own full-round action, seperate and distinct from a 'full-attack action' (meaning you can't Fight Defensively at the same time), or whether the ability to take all your melee attacks during Spell Combat means you cast and have a 'full-attack action' (meaning that Fighting Defensively can be incorporated into that full-attack action). The wording of Spell Combat is a bit ambiguous. Personally I'd happily let a Magus pile on the penalties, if that's what he wants... ;)
A similar question arises with the Combat Expertise Feat - which you can only use with an 'attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon'.
But in any case, penalties to attack rolls only apply to attack rolls. At least one playtest version of Spell Combat had penalties to the Concentration check as well as the attack rolls you took with Spell Combat - it was needlessly complicated, and it's a very good thing it was dropped... IMHO... ;)
You are almost right, when casting spells with a casting time of a swift* action you don't provoke AoO for casting a spell, ergo you don't have to cast defensively.
*whether you quicken the spell or the spell's original casting time is swift.
Touche sir! Noted.