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So I let my DM know how unhappy i was after losing my 24th character(I keep dead characters as NPC's for my games). Mind you this is over a long period of time.
Group: We been gaming together about 5 years. 9 players with an average of 3-6 showing up at anyone time (including DM in those numbers). Age range 23 - 44 with all different playing styles. We rotate DMing between 6 of us. We play all genre of RP - western/modern/future/superhero/homebrew.
I figured i have played in about 8-10 of his games in that 5 year period. Thats 2-3 charactera a game (more or less) i know I lost 4 in one and a few i made it through on 2.
EX:(just a few and not all this bad... these were the worse). These characters were of all types flavor and opt...many races and alignments.
- He has gone as far as to coupe an unconscious character of mine as a full round action in middle of combat with all other PC's up (never been done before or after to anyone else in group).
- Told me, as i was falling in an underground cavern over a river of motlen lava, that it was not dim light or darker (cloak of bat could of saved me).
- D-Doored a boss behind an archer of mine who was only killing minions every other round from a distance while entire group with heavy melee power were taking out his main force.
No one else has died near as much. I called him on it after he let another PC live (who was destined to die on the next round) by having the BBEG just walk away in the middle of combat (i was hiding and not fighting as a rogue at the time).
Problem... were friends in real life and work together. I like the guy were social outside of gaming and as far as i know he likes me as well. He got upset when i called him on it and stopped the game for the evening (postponed now 4 weeks), said i was calling him a liar when he disagreed on how my PC were killed unfairly and how often. The group kinda buzzed in that i was right but were mostly staying out of the conversation.
This saturday were starting up again. He wants me to play in the game. I am bringing in a new PC (Bard flavor character no heavy combat abilities) and am fearful that
A. He will treat me with kids glooves (not what i want and no fun or fair)
or
B.ignore my character
We have talked and i showed him my "Dead Pool" folder and everything seems good to go... He never really had any real response to me about it. It was laughable at first but i build all my character to 20th level with everything picked out in advance to speed up leveling so our game time is spent gaming.
Just wondering if anyone has ran into this before.
It looks like your DM read a little bit too much of Killer DM's campaign journals and got that "blood for the blood-god" itch and boy is that an itch you want to scratch.
In all seriousness, you two are friends in real life. I suggest you talk to him about the style of game he wants vs the style of gaming you want and compromise.
Now I don't know the circumstances of the situations you brought up but it is reasonable to CdG a character in the middle of combat. Monsters get hungry, you know. Sometimes an enemy does it to prove a point. To quell his own doubts about his worthless life. He knows he exists solely as XP for you and sometimes if he can take one of you down with him he will die with a smile on his face. Also death-loving intelligent baddies get off to snuffing the life force out of things with a pulse. These types give a whole new meaning to delivering a finishing blow.
Sometimes the only thing you can do is make sure you are playing tactically smart and not the one to blame for some of the deaths as well. For example, a player in my group is on his 9th or 10th character because he gets his character killed almost every combat doing dumb things like charging headfirst into a group of trolls as a monk or trying to swim across a raging river when you are a gnome bard with zero ranks in swim and a str score of 10. This kid's deaths almost equal the total number of sessions we have had. We try to coach the poor lad but he keeps making the same mistakes over and over.
I've used this character's deaths as an important aspect to my characters roleplaying. He keeps himself further away from his new travelling companions because he doesn't expect them to last long. Are your deaths affecting your companions?
Introducing new companions is also more and more tedious for the DM who wants to mantain a sort of continuous story without having to resort to you stumble upon character X traveling alone in your direction.
As you know, if you are playing lightly armored characters who are sticking there necks out doing a lot of damage or contributing the fight in major ways you are going to be noticed and you are going to have to have an answer to the attention of everyone who wants to see you dead. (As a PC this number is MUCH MUCH higher than the people who want to see you alive)
Being a PC is dangerous business and sometimes the roc is going to grab someone on his dive and the only thing you can hope for is that he doesn't pick you. That being said, your character deaths are too high for this to be the case of simple bad luck.
In conclusion, talk to him but make sure you are doing your best to be a smart player. See what the other players think?
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True but if I was "getting them killed" I would not of posted this.lol.
No scary evil monster full rd killed me why I was down...1/2 Orc 3rd. rd of the combat. 1- I hit kill small low level Minion (playing barbarian/not raging)
Main boss takes.round to move towards me ignoring a large weapon fighter and sorc. Who were killing minions as well.
2- I miss boss, he downs me with 3 hits.
3- Boss ignores sorc huge area.effects going off, and fight and takes a.full rd to kill me.
Not. Complaining mind you just answering your question. Not sure what I can say to him as I am not sure he sees my side of it.
Depends. How stupidly is the party behaving?
I'm a little bit confused by what you're saying.
What I understand is that you are a half orc barbarian who wasn't raging who 1 hit killed a minion. Then the main boss moved in to take you one on one and your party ignored him and focused on minions. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I can tell it sounds like lack of teamwork.
Just curious, did your chracter rage? Did you remember half-orcs ferocity? Did he call out for support from his companions?
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I'm a little bit confused by what you're saying.
What I understand is that you are a half orc barbarian who wasn't raging who 1 hit killed a minion. Then the main boss moved in to take you one on one and your party ignored him and focused on minions. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I can tell it sounds like lack of teamwork.
Just curious, did your chracter rage? Did you remember half-orcs ferocity? Did he call out for support from his companions?
Yeah teamwork an issue I agree. But the group we were fighting was an evil Orc and half Orc tribe. They all looked similiar (on table top all same mini's) and description wise we didn't know it was boss till the moment he downed me. 3 hits 66 dmg.(we play Neg. Con score rule) I was beyond -10 and I understand rage rules you cannot rage as an immediate action to negate a hit.
You should talk to your DM about appropriate levels of description of the enemies you are facing. You should be able to tell the difference between a half-pig and full pig. Different skin color, facial features, and smell. Especially if the full pig is the big bad. What self-respecting cheif doesn't have some sort of long braids, tattoos, or other decorations? At the very least you should know the one barking out orders is the one you have to worry about. This isn't the case for all enemies though. I can't tell the difference between a gelantious cube and one with class levels.
What level were you guys? A barbarian may rage as a free action but not as an immediate. I would have had your character basically make a will-save or voluntarily rage on the death of the first minion. Talk about an adrenaline rush but I digress.
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We have talked and i showed him my "Dead Pool" folder and everything seems good to go... He never really had any real response to me about it. It was laughable at first but i build all my character to 20th level with everything picked out in advance to speed up leveling so our game time is spent gaming.
In any event I would stop going to this level of detail, it clearly is adding to your frustration, and not worth doing if your dead :(
I have a similar thing going on, but its stretched out over multiple DMs and games.
If the DM hits me, there is an 85% chance it will be a massive critical.
Twenty-four characters in about five years. That is a lot higher than in any game I would want to play in. In the last ten years, I've had less than ten PC deaths as a whole (playing or GMing). Which might be a bit low, but I would rather err on the side of too few.
Reading your side of the story it sounds like the DM is singling you out. You say you rotate DM duties. Has all your PC deaths been with this one DM? How many PCs have the other players lost? You say "nearly as much" so it does sound like other PCs do die.
It is possible that because of you friendship that he is harder on you than other players.
That said, it isn't a campaign I would want to be on. Any campaign that most of the PCs don't survive or have multiple deaths wouldn't be fun for me. I like having continuity in the story.
As for your DM's tactics, I would say he is not playing his NPC to win, rather he is just trying to inflict causalities. Tactically, it is generally not a good choice to single out one PC to kill when you could be disabling another more dangerous foe.
For example, taking the time to coup de grace a PC when others are still active is merely wasting a turn. When was the last time you saw a PC coup de grace in the middle of combat?
I often hear the argument about keeping the PC from being healed, but I don't buy that. Good-aligned PCs will 'waste' resources to try and save their stricken comrade rather than continue to kill minions; often exposing themselves to great risk in the process. Heck, using their downed comrade as human shield is a great tactic, that mage ain't gonna be flinging fireballs in his direction while he stands over the body.
In any case the BBEG would be much better served by taking out the mage spamming his troops with fireballs than worry about a disabled foe. The only reason to kill a downed foe is that there is some kind of personal reason to kill to the PC (hopefully in-game and not out-of-game).
First thing I would ask is if you are the only player having this issue or is everyone in the group generally having their characters die a lot?
If its just you....how do you play them? I've done some stupid stuff before that got my character killed or nearly killed, but it was my fault so I got nothing to complain about. Or for some reason he is singling you out. 24 characters is A LOT! The occasional party death is expected and part of the game, but if you're dieing that often, then I agree something ain't right.
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Yeah talk to him....the three examples are sorta bad.
If coup de Graceing a PC is ok in my book sometimes....especialy with healers running around. But if he has only done it just that once to you....either he is out to get you...or realize the mistake at the time and has decided not to use that tactic again. Also it could have been for RP reason....you were fighting orcs you being a 1/2 orc might could have been the reason why.
The thing about falling in a dark cave and telling you it was dark enough to use the cloak of the bat...well yeah he is a little bit at fault...but you could have asked if will work. It sounds like a group that might have been hard to keep track of who has what magic items.
As for the BBG DD behind your archer...again it could have been actualy tactic here...I don't know I was not behind the screen at the time. Though I could see a BBG doing it to take out the archer annd hit the melee fighter from behind.
Though I could see reasons for all the above the fact that you died 24 times in 5 years is kinda a problem. Though that problem might be atleast partialy yours. Instead of 'calling him out on this' you should talk to him and ask what you are doing wrong? Even if you are not doing anything really 'wrong' he is more likely to look at it in a different light instead of being put on the defensive.
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WhipShire, the few times I've had conflicts like that with my group have been awful; sometimes the issue gets resolved and everyone's pals again- but sometimes not. Perhaps if you showed your friend this post it would provide a less threatening, detached way for him to reflect on what's happened and how to deal with it? If so, try for a moment when no one's angry or threatened.
Personally, like other posters have noted, I wouldn't want to be in a such a lethal world for my PC's. The other side of that is my attachment to my characters is a sign that I enjoy participating in the world that the GM put together.
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See if I can answer you guys in order...
Yes I have reduced my character creation detail but that sucks as its a lot of fun to create.
Some call me TIM - I think you maybe on to something about him being harder on my pc due to our friendship. Now that I look at it that way of fits. You are correct.that losing that many pc's make lose interest in the game.
Deadman - I think the other guys range from 3-5 lost in his games.
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Yeah talk to him....the three examples are sorta bad.
If coup de Graceing a PC is ok in my book sometimes....especialy with healers running around. But if he has only done it just that once to you....either he is out to get you...or realize the mistake at the time and has decided not to use that tactic again. Also it could have been for RP reason....you were fighting orcs you being a 1/2 orc might could have been the reason why.
The thing about falling in a dark cave and telling you it was dark enough to use the cloak of the bat...well yeah he is a little bit at fault...but you could have asked if will work. It sounds like a group that might have been hard to keep track of who has what magic items.
As for the BBG DD behind your archer...again it could have been actualy tactic here...I don't know I was not behind the screen at the time. Though I could see a BBG doing it to take out the archer annd hit the melee fighter from behind.
Though I could see reasons for all the above the fact that you died 24 times in 5 years is kinda a problem. Though that problem might be atleast partialy yours. Instead of 'calling him out on this' you should talk to him and ask what you are doing wrong? Even if you are not doing anything really 'wrong' he is more likely to look at it in a different light instead of being put on the defensive.
True. I could of handled it better. Just real unsure how our first game after 4 weeks is going to go. I rather die on a regular basis then get ignored or a DM save every night.
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It's not about how many character deaths is too many, but about whether or not everyone is having fun.
If even one character death spoils the fun for a player, THAT'S BAD.
If everyone dies a hundred times, but are still having a great time, than the character deaths aren't an issue.
Problem... were friends in real life and work together. I like the guy were social outside of gaming and as far as i know he likes me as well. He got upset when i called him on it and stopped the game for the evening (postponed now 4 weeks), said i was calling him a liar when he disagreed on how my PC were killed unfairly and how often. The group kinda buzzed in that i was right but were mostly staying out of the conversation.
Maybe he was killing your character a bit too often and you genuinely called him on it (hence the angry reaction). It happens to the best of us. Sometimes we see a PC in a vulnerable spot and we just can't resist the kill. Perhaps you were just unlucky to be "that guy" all the time, but true, it does appear he singles you out.
I would recommend to him that he increase the amount of kills to other party members. Not only will this make you feel like he's not specifically targeting you, but it will make the game much more enjoyable anyway. . .
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WhipShire, the few times I've had conflicts like that with my group have been awful; sometimes the issue gets resolved and everyone's pals again- but sometimes not. Perhaps if you showed your friend this post it would provide a less threatening, detached way for him to reflect on what's happened and how to deal with it? If so, try for a moment when no one's angry or threatened.
Personally, like other posters have noted, I wouldn't want to be in a such a lethal world for my PC's. The other side of that is my attachment to my characters is a sign that I enjoy participating in the world that the GM put together.
I really enjoy his games. Good detail, nice mix of RP and combat... even adds music score to some fight scenes.
One problem is contacting him and follow through. We created a site w/message board to communicate as their are so many of us. Been using it for 3 years. Whose game and when, show times, details of upcoming games and such..... between gaming, at work he does not respond to txt messages or request for info on the site. You could ask him at work.... hey someone posted on the site, could you check it and reply...? He either does not or if he does its a week later. so talking to him outside of the game is not so easy.
2nd problem... I don't wear my emotions on my sleeve. it will take a lot to make me really upset... I am just annoyed at this point. he on the other hand seems to go silent when anyone confronts him... he pretty sensitive compared to me so that might.be an issue as well.
True. I could of handled it better. Just real unsure how our first game after 4 weeks is going to go. I rather die on a regular basis then get ignored or a DM save every night.
Well if you guys are good friends you could always say your are sorry about your initial approach to the subject and start new.
And yeah I agree...I am more likely to complain to a GM about a fight in which I was ignored in than one I died in.
You could make a character with OP back-up options, so when the game kicks into overtime and your character is close to death, you always have a way to get out.
Oh Mr. Big Boss, you're about to chop my head off. Well, how do you like... quickened persistent grease on your weapon and persistent grease on the floor!
-Slip thud-
It's not about how many character deaths is too many, but about whether or not everyone is having fun.
If even one character death spoils the fun for a player, THAT'S BAD.
If everyone dies a hundred times, but are still having a great time, than the character deaths aren't an issue.
Well said- that settles that!