RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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What about changing one or the other so that the benefit is the multiplier increases by one step?
For example, keen would, instead of doubling the threat range, change the multiplier by one step. X2 would increase to X3.
Then make keen and improved critical stack.
Would that work?
What about changing one or the other so that the benefit is the multiplier increases by one step?
For example, keen would, instead of doubling the threat range, change the multiplier by one step. X2 would increase to X3.
Then make keen and improved critical stack.
Would that work?
I like this idea...
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What about changing one or the other so that the benefit is the multiplier increases by one step?
For example, keen would, instead of doubling the threat range, change the multiplier by one step. X2 would increase to X3.
Then make keen and improved critical stack.
Would that work?
Mechanically and mathematically, if I remember, there isn't any difference to the % of DPR bonus between a 18-20x3 weapon and a 15-20x2. The first one is spiky, the second one way more constant and allow for more hits. I would say yes to someone who wants to increase it's critical multiplier instead of it's range with Keen or Improved Critical.
But I would NEVER, there is no way in hell the player would be allowed to stack the two effects, classical and variant. It's so cheesy and overpowered, come on.By the same logic, having a 15-20x3 weapon would be the same as getting a 9-20x2 weapon. Just throw in an elven curve blade and power attack, and you're god. >_>
What about changing one or the other so that the benefit is the multiplier increases by one step?
For example, keen would, instead of doubling the threat range, change the multiplier by one step. X2 would increase to X3.
Then make keen and improved critical stack.
Would that work?
Mechanically and mathematically, if I remember, there isn't any difference to the % of DPR bonus between a 18-20x3 weapon and a 15-20x2. The first one is spiky, the second one way more constant and allow for more hits. I would say yes to someone who wants to increase it's critical multiplier instead of it's range with Keen or Improved Critical.
But I would NEVER, there is no way in hell the player would be allowed to stack the two effects, classical and variant. It's so cheesy and overpowered, come on.
By the same logic, having a 15-20x3 weapon would be the same as getting a 9-20x2 weapon. Just throw in an elven curve blade and power attack, and you're god. >_>
If I were to make this a rule, I'd make Improved Critical needing BAB +16 or something. Melees need a bit more love at high levels anyways. Granted, that would screw over builds that needed it at lower levels, so maybe just let them have it at lower levels. Spellcasters are starting to overtake them at the point when they can get it, so why not?
Mechanically and mathematically, if I remember, there isn't any difference to the % of DPR bonus between a 18-20x3 weapon and a 15-20x2. The first one is spiky, the second one way more constant and allow for more hits. I would say yes to someone who wants to increase it's critical multiplier instead of it's range with Keen or Improved Critical.
But I would NEVER, there is no way in hell the player would be allowed to stack the two effects, classical and variant. It's so cheesy and overpowered, come on.
By the same logic, having a 15-20x3 weapon would be the same as getting a 9-20x2 weapon. Just throw in an elven curve blade and power attack, and you're god. >_>
It's not nearly that strong.
I'll just leave these ol' things here:
Rant: If Keen and Improved Critical Don't Stack, The Terrorists Will Have Won
Keen & Improved Critical, Part 2
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If I were to make this a rule, I'd make Improved Critical needing BAB +16 or something. Melees need a bit more love at high levels anyways. Granted, that would screw over builds that needed it at lower levels, so maybe just let them have it at lower levels. Spellcasters are starting to overtake them at the point when they can get it, so why not?
You can already have a 15-20x3 weapon. Just be a level 20 fighter.
There aren't only spellcasters in the game, and changing the way a feat/quality works to stack it with something it shouldn't even stack to begin with, even with a +16 BAB prerequisite, will only bring happiness to the munchkin.
What about changing one or the other so that the benefit is the multiplier increases by one step?
For example, keen would, instead of doubling the threat range, change the multiplier by one step. X2 would increase to X3.
Then make keen and improved critical stack.
Would that work?
Now do it with a Falcatta, for 15-20/x4 critical.
Yes ... not so balanced, is it?
Again, a missed opportunity would have been to have each increase the threat range by one or two. That would make more weapons viable for critical focus feats ...
I would have said:
Keen - improves threat range by one
Improved Critical - improves threat range by one
Critical Focus - also improves threat range by one
But hindsight is a wonderful thing, maybe if there is ever a Pathfinder 2.0 it'll be adressed.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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This idea was created this morning when I realized there hasn't been any feat or magical enhancement that increases the multiplier.
I understand the reason why allowing keen and improved critical to stack is not a good idea (note I didn't say it was a bad idea.) The reason is mainly the addition of critical feats, like bleeding critical or stunning critical. However, those feats don't rely on the damage multiplier to work, just the critical hit range.
If keen and improved critical were to stack as they are now, it would be possible to have ranges of 12-20, though I may have forgotten something that would make it bigger. Increasing the range to be that large would make the critical feats activate far too often to be balanced.
But I am not talking about the critical range increasing past 15-20, so those feats wouldn't be impacted so much by my suggestions.
I had forgotten that there are level 20 abilities that increase the damage multiplier. That tells me the developers think that increasing the multiplier is a pretty big deal.
So, maybe this isn't that great of an idea after all. In fact, I think to make this idea work, improved critical would need to be changed to increasing the range by only one step, not doubling it. That way, the best someone could do was 17-20/x3. The problem is the this also makes the use of critical feats less appealing.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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What about changing one or the other so that the benefit is the multiplier increases by one step?
For example, keen would, instead of doubling the threat range, change the multiplier by one step. X2 would increase to X3.
Then make keen and improved critical stack.
Would that work?
Now do it with a Falcatta, for 15-20/x4 critical.
Yes ... not so balanced, is it?
I must not have been clear. The abilities of keen would changed, so it would no longer adjust the critical range. Instead it would increase the damage multiplier. Once that change is done, it would be allowed to work with improved critical.
With this change, the Falcata would have a critical of 17-20/x4, not 15-20/x4. Still, that might be a little more powerful then desired.
The falcata is an exceptional corner case that shouldn't be used in any rational arguement.
Try this with normal weapons and it is a reasonable change.
By the same logic, having a 15-20x3 weapon would be the same as getting a 9-20x2 weapon. Just throw in an elven curve blade and power attack, and you're god. >_>
Well, you'd hit a point where some of those 9s would miss even though they're threats. Granted, you'd be very powerful even if you'd have a few "aw shucks" swings.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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In 3rd Edition, there were prestige clases and a feat which served to increase the damage multiplier on a critical hit. Experience showed that, taken in combination with ken or Improved Critical, they made hash out of the game. (When 30% of your 1d8+11 arrows do x5 damage, that stings.)
The solution in 3.5 was to eliminate all means in increase a damage multiplier. With the advent of Pathfinder, they're back in rarified circumstances.
What about changing one or the other so that the benefit is the multiplier increases by one step?
For example, keen would, instead of doubling the threat range, change the multiplier by one step. X2 would increase to X3.
Then make keen and improved critical stack.
Would that work?
I've been considering this for a long time. Before Pathfinder, power attack led me to think it was a bad idea but that's not the case anymore.
IMO, keen, the weapon's attribute to make it deadlier, should result in a higher crit multiplier.
In return Improved Critical, the wielder's ability to score more criticals, should result in a higher threat range.
I also agree with the fact that the Falcata should be left out of this discussion. Besides, Falcata is already weapon + feat (EWP). The same effect can be achieved with an axe (weapon) + feat (Improved critical). The falcata would allow a player to take it one feat further (for a total of 2 feat + price of one 'plus') to 17-20 x 4.
As it is already a fringe weapon (part of the advanced gear in the PRD), it wouldn't be hard to rule it out as a whole lot of weapons would become just as interesting with this rule than the RaW falcata.
'findel
For example, keen would, instead of doubling the threat range, change the multiplier by one step. X2 would increase to X3.
Then make keen and improved critical stack.
Would that work?
I've used this houserule for years - since the nascent 3.5 days. Our group likes it a lot.
Since we switched to Pathfinder, we also incorporate the house rule I shared in this thread.
The short version of that houserule, says that a character with critical feats can apply a number of critical feats equal to the weapon's critical multiplier -1 to each crit. (So a x3 weapon could apply 2 critical feats)
Critical Mastery lets you apply a number of feats equal to the critical multiplier (instead of multiplier -1).
We don't touch the falcata.