This is just a scratch, so tell me what you think of it...
The Beastbrewer creates magical or improved beasts with drugs and surgical procedures, but is not necessarily cruel as the Reanimator or Vivisectionist.
Added Extracts: Atavism (as a 2nd level extract), Awaken (as a 3rd level), Animal Growth (4th), Improved Polymorph (6th)
Special Ability: Create Wondrous Creatures (from "Secrets of the Alchemist", but as a feat it was too strong), at 6th level. This replaces swift poisoning.
The Beastbrewer can inject or make drink extracts and mutagens to any beast he's working on at the moment (never more than one at the time) or to any beast he's crafted.
Suggestions?
Maybe swap out bombs and poison use for wild empathy and an animal companion as a druid? Maybe even +1/2 level in Handle Animal instead of craft(alchemy!?
Sounds good, but as the companion should be an "experiment" too, I wouldn't make it too Summoner-like.
So here it is. Comments please! (And thanks to Siegfried Trent, who created "Secrets of the Alchemist" in first place. I somehow altered his "Craft Wondrous Creature" feat to fit it to my needs).
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the showing of every magical or giant beast in the world could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Handle Animal: The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill.
Careful Veterinary: At 3rd level, a beastbrewer may use the best bonus between his Knowledge (nature) skill bonus and his Heal skill bonus in every check of each skill.
Beast Unchainer: At 4th level, a beastbrewer adds Atavism to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract.
Beast Tamer: At 7th level, a beastbrewer adds Awaken to his formula book as a 3th-level extract.
Create Wondrous Creature: At 8th level, the beastbrewer can mutate a normal animal or plant in a different and more powerful creature. However, this creature is not necessarily under his control. There are two possible procedures to do this.
The cheaper (and longer) one is to make a creature drink the alchemist’s potions. The beastbrewer can pass to an animal he’s working on every extract that causes physical changes, psychical enhancements, or gives protection against an effect (like bull’s strength or protection from energy). Mutagens, cognatogens and discoveries that cause physical improvements (like tentacle or vestigial arm) work on the animal as well. A plant must be watered with an extract in order to be affected. The extract must be one that would work on that being (e. g., enlarge person will not work on animals or plants). For every consecutive day that a creature imbibes alchemical potions, there’s a cumulative chance of 1% that the beastbrewer can make the last liquid effect permanent. He must succeed with both Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (nature) checks (DC 20 + CR of the creature). The chance reverts to 0% after every such attempt, successful or not, but the creature’s not harmed by a failed check. Multiple permanent mutations can create unique creatures with strange powers. The creature can be loyal to its creator or not, depending on how the alchemist behaves with it.
The second (expensive but swifter) procedure allows to create any known aberration, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or plant creature. To begin, the beastbrewer needs access to an alchemist’s lab worth at least 500 gp. The process involves subjecting a similar creature or creatures to various spells and grafting techniques. To create a creature, the beastbrewer must succeed with both Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (nature) checks (DC 20 + CR of attempted creature). The beastbrewer gains a +1 circumstance bonus for every attempt at a specific creature that he has previously made, whether successful or not.
If both Knowledge skill checks are failed, the creature dies a horrible death. If one Knowledge skill check fails and the other succeeds, the resulting creation is horribly deformed in some way and is hostile to its creator.
The base price of a creature is its CR value squared times 1,000 gp (CR x CR x 1,000 gp). Creating a creature takes 1 day/1,000 gp in its base price. To create a creature, you must supply raw materials costing 1/2 its base price. The minimum CL for creating a creature is 2 times the CR (2 x CR) of the intended creature until you reach 10th level; thereafter, it’s your level minus 5. The appropriate spells must be used to add extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), and supernatural (Su) abilities to the creature.
Special: If a charm monster spell is cast every day of the creation process, a successfully created creature will be entirely loyal to you, although not under your direct control. If a limited wish is used in the creation process, a successfully created creature will be loyal and will follow a life goal you choose for it. If a wish is used in the creation process, a successfully created creature and all its descendants will follow a single life goal of your choice.
The beastbrewer can let his creations free, sell them or take them with him on adventures if they’re loyal to their creator. This is not like having a familiar or an animal companion: he must have the appropriate skills to train a beast as a mount or a war animal, or else it will do more or less as it pleases.
Whichever procedure he’s using, the beastbrewer can’t work on more than one creature at a time and can’t give to a beast a CR higher than his alchemist level -2. He can take with him on adventures more than one beast, but only for a total CR equal to this maximum. This ability replaces poison resistance +2, poison resistance +6 and swift poisoning.
Giant Maker: At 10th level, a beastbrewer adds animal growth to his formula book as a 4th level extract.
All-Monster Crafter: At 16th level, a beastbrewer adds polymorph any object to his formula book as a 6th-level extract (it will work only on living beings).
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Are they supposed to use bombs for combat? How can they control animals?
Bombs: yes. Poison: no.
Control animals: more or less like another character with Handle Animal (I would make clear that this is not a ranger or druid). Have you any different suggestion?
I modified it to make the archetype simpler and more attuned to your suggested abilities. See if it's nicer this way...
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Veterinary, nor Crafter: The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill. He gains a competence bonus equal to half his class level on the check. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, he also gains just a competence bonus equal to half his class level.
Beast Unchainer: At 4th level, a beastbrewer adds Atavism to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract.
Beast Tamer: At 7th level, a beastbrewer adds Awaken to his formula book as a 3th-level extract.
Bounded Experiment: At 4th level, the beastbrewer gains an animal companion, using his alchemist level -3 as his effective druid level. This can be a normal animal or a magical beast. Bonded experiments have an Intelligence score of at least 6. A beastbrewer can pass potions, mutagens, cognatogens and discoveries to his companion as well as himself. Every day that a creature imbibes alchemical potions, there’s a chance of 1% (not cumulative) that the last effect becomes permanent. Multiple permanent mutations can create unique creatures with strange powers. However, the creature's CR cannot exceed the listed HD for animal companions by level (Core Rules). This ability replaces the 4th level discovery.
Create Wondrous Creature: At 6th level, the beastbrewer can mutate a normal animal in a different and more powerful creature. This procedure allows to create any known aberration, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or plant creature. However, the created beast is not necessarily under his control.
To begin, the beastbrewer needs access to an alchemist’s lab worth at least 500 gp. The process involves subjecting a similar creature or creatures to various spells and grafting techniques. To create a creature, the beastbrewer must succeed with both Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (nature) checks (DC 20 + CR of attempted creature). The beastbrewer gains a +1 circumstance bonus for every attempt at a specific creature that he has previously made, whether successful or not.
If both Knowledge skill checks are failed, the creature dies a horrible death. If one Knowledge skill check fails and the other succeeds, the resulting creation is horribly deformed in some way and is hostile to its creator.
The base price of a creature is its CR value squared times 1,000 gp (CR x CR x 1,000 gp). Creating a creature takes 1 day/1,000 gp in its base price. To create a creature, you must supply raw materials costing 1/2 its base price. The minimum CL for creating a creature is 2 times the CR (2 x CR) of the intended creature until you reach 10th level; thereafter, it’s your level minus 5. The appropriate spells must be used to add extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), and supernatural (Su) abilities to the creature.
Special: If a charm monster spell is cast every day of the creation process, a successfully created creature will be entirely loyal to you, although not under your direct control. If a limited wish is used in the creation process, a successfully created creature will be loyal and will follow a life goal you choose for it. If a wish is used in the creation process, a successfully created creature and all its descendants will follow a single life goal of your choice.
The beastbrewer can let his creations free, sell them, give them as presents to NPC (but not to fellows PC), set them as guards for his laboratory or treasure trove, or other. He can't take them with him on adventures as long as his bonded experiment is with him. If the bonded experiment ever dies or is dismissed, the beastbrewer can craft another experiment to replace it or take another of his other experiments as his new companion. This ability replaces swift poisoning.
Giant Maker: At 10th level, a beastbrewer adds animal growth to his formula book as a 4th level extract.
All-Monster Crafter: At 16th level, a beastbrewer adds polymorph any object to his formula book as a 6th-level extract (it will work only on living beings).
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Here's another attempt (I hope this time's definitive):
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Veterinary: The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill. He gains a competence bonus equal to half his class level on the check. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, he also gains just a competence bonus equal to half his class level.
Beast Unchainer: At 4th level, a beastbrewer adds Atavism to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract.
Beast Tamer: At 7th level, a beastbrewer adds Awaken to his formula book as a 3th-level extract.
Create Wondrous Creature: At 6th level, the beastbrewer can mutate a normal creature in any known aberration, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or plant creature, or in an unique creature with strange powers (this follows the creation rules for new monsters or variant monsters). However, the created beast is not necessarily under the alchemist’s control.
To begin, the beastbrewer needs access to an alchemist’s lab worth at least 500 gp. The process involves subjecting a similar creature or creatures to various spells and grafting techniques. To create a creature, the beastbrewer must succeed with both Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (nature) checks (DC 20 + CR of attempted creature). The beastbrewer gains a +1 circumstance bonus for every attempt at a specific creature that he has previously made, whether successful or not.
If both Knowledge skill checks are failed, the creature dies a horrible death. If one Knowledge skill check fails and the other succeeds, the resulting creation is horribly deformed in some way and is hostile to its creator.
The base price of a creature is its CR value squared times 1,000 gp (CR x CR x 1,000 gp). Creating a creature takes 1 day/1,000 gp in its base price. To create a creature, you must supply raw materials costing 1/2 its base price. The minimum CL for creating a creature is 2 times the CR (2 x CR) of the intended creature until you reach 10th level; thereafter, it’s your level minus 5. The appropriate spells must be used to add extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), and supernatural (Su) abilities to the creature.
Special: If a charm monster spell is cast every day of the creation process, a successfully created creature will be entirely loyal to you, although not under your direct control. If a limited wish is used in the creation process, a successfully created creature will be loyal and will follow a life goal you choose for it. If a wish is used in the creation process, a successfully created creature and all its descendants will follow a single life goal of your choice.
The beastbrewer can let his creations free, sell them, give them as presents to NPC (but not to fellows PC), set them as guards for his laboratory or treasure trove, or other. He can as well take a created beast with him on adventures as a bonded animal companion. A beastbrewer can pass potions, mutagens, cognatogens and discoveries to his bonded experiment as well as himself, and continues to improve its abilities over time. However, the creature's CR cannot exceed the listed HD for animal companions by level (Core Rules). If the beastbrewer has an animal companion from another class, he can empower it alchemically but levels don’t stack for this ability.
If the bonded experiment ever dies or is dismissed, the beastbrewer can craft another experiment to replace it or take another of his other experiments as his new companion. This ability replaces swift poisoning.
Giant Maker: At 10th level, a beastbrewer adds animal growth to his formula book as a 4th level extract.
All-Monster Crafter: At 16th level, a beastbrewer adds polymorph any object to his formula book as a 6th-level extract (it will work only on living beings).
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Anyone?
Once again I return to this thread because I'm not entirely satisfacted of the archetype yet.
What troubles me is the lack of sound rules on the bonded experiment. It's okay if the beastbrewer wants an already existing monster. But what I'd have really liked would be an evolving unique monster just like a summoner's eidolon. I thought of enhancig the experiment with level advancing adding templates, or creating a new "alchemical beast" template, but somehow none of these would do.
So what about this:
Bonded experiments
A beastbrewer receives his bonded experiment at 6th level, when he gains the Create Wondrous Creatures ability. The experiment follows the rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer alchemist level as his effective druid level -1, with these changes:
-Any known animal, magical beast or aberration can be a bonded experiment (with properly reduced power according to the alchemist level).
-A bonded experiment has a limited number of evolution points like a summoner's eidolon. The number of evolution points granted is equal to 1/2 of the beastbrewer's level plus his Intelligence bonus. Once an evolution is chosen, it can't be changed as the eidolon's evolutions when the beastbrewer advances in level. An evolution must be fit for the beast's actual form; a lion can't have Wing buffet if he doesn't have Flight, for example. A bonded experiment has no free evolutions.
It still has its natural attack forms, statistics and characteristics, \though.
-A bonded experiment of less than Large size increases one size category at 7th level If the beastbrewer wants to further enlarge a little companion, a Tiny experiment can become Small at the cost of 1 EP, and a Small experiment becomes Medium at the cost of 2 EP. Further increases in size follow the normal evolution rules.
-The beastbrewer can spend EP to give his bonded experiment other special monster characteristics (see Universal Monster Rules), at a cost depending from the comparable characteristic power (most special powers will cost 4 points at least: this is up to the GM).
-A bonded experiment qualifies for the Extra Evolution feat
Furthermore, I'll add Transmogrify to the beastbrewer formula book as a 4th level extract at 10th level.
Ok, please tell me what do you think of it!!!
And this should be the real definitive version of the archetype (much shorter and more agile).
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Veterinary: The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill. He gains a competence bonus equal to half his class level on the check. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, he also gains just a competence bonus equal to half his class level.
Beast Unchainer: At 4th level, a beastbrewer adds Atavism to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract.
Beast Tamer: At 7th level, a beastbrewer adds Awaken to his formula book as a 3th-level extract.
Alchemical Bond:At 2th level, the beastbrewer receives a loyal companion, mutated by his experiments, to travel and fight at his side. The bonded experiment follows the rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer alchemist level as his effective druid level -1, with these changes:
-Any known animal, magical beast or aberration can be a bonded experiment (with properly reduced power according to the alchemist level).
-A bonded experiment has a limited number of evolution points like a summoner's eidolon. The number of evolution points granted is equal to 1/2 of the beastbrewer's level plus his Intelligence bonus. Once an evolution is chosen, it can't be changed as the eidolon's evolutions when the beastbrewer advances in level. An evolution must be fit for the beast's actual form; a lion can't have Wing buffet if he doesn't have Flight, for example. A bonded experiment has no free evolutions.
It still has its natural attack forms, statistics and characteristics, though.
-A bonded experiment of less than Large size increases one size category at 7th level If the beastbrewer wants to further enlarge a little companion, a Tiny experiment can become Small at the cost of 1 EP, and a Small experiment becomes Medium at the cost of 2 EP. Further increases in size follow the normal evolution rules.
-The beastbrewer can spend EP to give his bonded experiment other special monster characteristics (see Universal Monster Rules), at a cost depending from the comparable characteristic power (most special powers will cost 4 points at least: this is up to the GM).
-A bonded experiment qualifies for the Extra Evolution feat
-A beastbrewer can pass potions, mutagens, cognatogens and discoveries to his bonded experiment as well as himself.
This ability replaces poison immunity +2.
Create Wondrous Creature: The beastbrewer gains Create Wondrous Creature (from "Secrets of the Alchemist") as a bonus feat at 6th level. The beastbrewer can let his creations free, sell them, give them as presents to NPC (but not to fellows PC), set them as guards for his laboratory or treasure trove, or other. If his bonded experiment is killed, he can replace it with a new creation as long as the new experiment fits in the level requirements. This ability replaces swift poisoning.
Giant Maker: At 10th level, a beastbrewer adds animal growth and transmogrify to his formula book as 4th level extracts.
All-Monster Crafter: At 16th level, a beastbrewer adds polymorph any object to his formula book as a 6th-level extract (it will work only on living beings).
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Ok, a very last errata:
Veterinary: The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill. He gains a competence bonus equal to half his class level on all Knowledge (nature) check. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, he also gains just a competence bonus equal to half his class level.
Every now and then I return on this archetype. I guess I'm not entirely satisfied with it yet. This is the latest version (I took off any reference to "Secrets of the Alchemist" in it):
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Veterinary: The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill. He gains a competence bonus equal to half his class level on all Knowledge (nature) check. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, he also gains just a competence bonus equal to half his class level.
Alchemical Bond: At 2th level, the beastbrewer receives a loyal companion, mutated by his experiments, to travel and fight at his side. The bonded experiment follows the rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer alchemist level as his effective druid level, with these changes:
-Any known animal, magical beast or aberration can be a bonded experiment (with properly reduced or increased power according to the alchemist level).
-A bonded experiment has a limited number of evolution points like a summoner's eidolon. The number of evolution points granted is equal to 1/2 of the beastbrewer's level plus his Intelligence bonus. Once an evolution is chosen, it can't be changed as the eidolon's evolutions when the beastbrewer advances in level. An evolution must be fit for the beast's actual form; a lion can't have Wing buffet if he doesn't have Flight, for example. A bonded experiment has no free evolutions. It still has its natural attack forms, statistics and characteristics, though.
-A bonded experiment of less than Large size increases one size category at 7th level. If the beastbrewer wants to further enlarge a little companion, a Tiny experiment can become Small at the cost of 1 EP, and a Small experiment becomes Medium at the cost of 2 EP. Further increases in size follow the normal evolution rules.
-The beastbrewer can spend EP to give his bonded experiment other special monster characteristics (see Universal Monster Rules), at a cost depending from the comparable characteristic power (most special powers will cost 4 points at least: this is up to the GM).
-A bonded experiment qualifies for the Extra Evolution feat
-A beastbrewer can share potions, mutagens, cognatogens and discoveries with his bonded experiment as a druid with his companion or a wizard with his familiar.
This ability replaces poison immunity +2.
Natural Sage: At 3rd level, a beastbrewer may use his Knowledge (nature) skill bonus in place of his Heal skill bonus.
Beast Unchainer: At 4th level, a beastbrewer adds Atavism to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract. This acts automatically as an infusion.
Create Prodigy: At 6th level, the beastbrewer can temporarily apply any template to a creature with a 24-hours alchemical procedure and an expense of 5.000 gp. For the procedure to succeed, the beastbrewer must make a successful Craft (alchemy) check and a successful Knowledge (nature) check (CD 15 for both). If either check fails, the creature is unharmed but unchanged, and time and money are lost. The template can be a simple, acquired or even an inherited one. This effect lasts for a week.
At 10th level, the beastbrewer can apply a template to a creature permanently. Time and costs are doubled too. The beastbrewer can’t give more than a permanent template to a creature without risking of killing it (cumulative +5 on both skill checks, the creature dies if the mutation fails), and never more than one on his bonded experiment. This ability replaces swift poisoning.
Beast Tamer: At 7th level, a beastbrewer adds Awaken to his formula book as a 3th-level extract. This acts automatically as an infusion.
Giant Maker: At 10th level, a beastbrewer adds Animal growth and Transmogrify to his formula book as 4th level extracts. These act automatically as infusions.
All-Monster Crafter: At 16th level, a beastbrewer adds Polymorph any object to his formula book as a 6th-level extract (it will work only on living beings). It has to be subministered as part of a 24-hours alchemical procedure.
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Special: The beastbrewer can’t select the Tumor Familiar discovery.
Some feedback's always welcome. I feel it can still be much improved.
Waaaaaaay too powerful. Even if it gave up bombs and mutagen. In particular, getting an animal companion at the loss of + 2 to poison saves. And well, most other trades.
The party would love half-dragon templates on the fighters.
I still love the idea, but the execution is a bit wanting. I might post some more constructive criticism later, once I have thought about it.
You're welcome. I feared that too... I thought to some eveniences soon after my last post, and some never occurred to me. I wonder if it's the case of removing completely the bonded experiment and create prodigy/wondrous creatures (but then it would lose much of its flavor) or considering do change it in a multiclass archetype on the other thread.
I've had an idea... what about converting the archetype in a prestige class? I'll try working on it and then start another thread. I hope in a little feedback there too.
Actually, I decided to split the beastbrewer in an archetype and a prestige class. This is the new archetype- enough tuned down, I hope. I'll develop the prestige class little by little in another thread. What would be a good name?
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Veterinary: The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill. He gains a competence bonus equal to half his class level on all Knowledge (nature) check. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, he also gains just a competence bonus equal to half his class level.
Alchemical Bond: The beastbrewer may choose to obtain a loyal companion, or «bonded experiment», in place of a discovery. Any animal, magical beast or aberration of proper power level can be a bonded experiment (strange, giant and mutated creatures are strongly suggested). The beastbrewer can share potions, mutagens, cognatogens and discoveries with his bonded experiment as a druid with his companion or a wizard with his familiar. The bonded experiment follows otherwise all the normal rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer’s alchemist level as his effective druid level.
Natural Sage: At 3rd level, a beastbrewer may use his Knowledge (nature) skill bonus in place of his Heal skill bonus.
Beast Unchainer: At 4th level, a beastbrewer adds Atavism to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract. At 7th level, the beastbrewer adds Awaken to his formula book as a 3th-level extract. At 10th level, the beastbrewer adds Animal growth and Strong jaw to his formula book as 4th level extracts. All these act automatically as infusions.
Create Wondrous Creatures: At 6th level, the beastbrewer can choose the Create Wondrous Creatures feat (from Secrets of the Alchemist) in place of a discovery.
All-Monster Crafter: At 16th level, a beastbrewer adds Polymorph any object to his formula book as a 6th-level extract (it will work only on living beings). It has to be subministered as part of a 24-hours alchemical procedure.
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Moreover, the beastbrewer has access to the following new discovery:
Injected Mutagen- When the alchemist creates a mutagen, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The mutagen can now be stored in a syringe and injected in other beings. It will have just half effect and last half of the time if used on someone other from the alchemist who created it.
Prerequisite- Alchemist 8, Infuse mutagen discovery
What do these features replace? It reads like you're just giving them a ton of bonus abilities. Also there is no way an animal companion is equivalent to a discovery. :\
Hmmm, I just took the Vivisectionist and changed here and there. That archetype gives some extra extracts without replacing nothing, and so did I. Same thing for the Clone Master. The Reanimator, Psychonaut and Preservationist, however, behave differently. So what's the right way to do it? It seems that the alchemist archetypes which give ONLY extra extracts as special abilities (or a lot of extra extracts) replace some abilities with them, while the ones which give other special abilities don't.
As for the animal companion, I followed this logic:
-The Oracle of Nature gets a bonded mount (equivalent to an animal companion) as a revelation, without level requirements.
-Is a revelation worth a feat? Yes (Extra Revelation)
-Is a feat worth a discovery? Yes (Extra Discovery)
-So an animal companion's worth a discovery...
But you may object that for a druid, an animal companion's worth a DOMAIN, and a domain's much more worth than a feat... That also's true. It's an ambiguity of the rules, perhaps. Or maybe the bonded mount's considered less than an animal companion because the oracle has little freedom of choice. I could adjust that reducing the druid level of the beastbrewer, perhaps to -4?
-The Oracle of Nature gets a bonded mount (equivalent to an animal companion) as a revelation, without level requirements.
-Is a revelation worth a feat? Yes (Extra Revelation)
-Is a feat worth a discovery? Yes (Extra Discovery)
-So an animal companion's worth a discovery...
But you may object that for a druid, an animal companion's worth a DOMAIN, and a domain's much more worth than a feat... That also's true. It's an ambiguity of the rules, perhaps. Or maybe the bonded mount's considered less than an animal companion because the oracle has little freedom of choice. I could adjust that reducing the druid level of the beastbrewer, perhaps to -4?
These things aren't actually equivalent at all, and the trades are not even. You're making a lot of uneven trades to get from a discovery to a druidic animal companion. Sorry—even at -3 it's not fair.
In the case of the Oracle, the revelations are their only class abilities other than spells. Even without discoveries, alchemists are very useful. So they aren't equal.
Lemme try my hand at this, as well as some commentary with my reasons in square brackets.
This was made with an eye towards keeping compatibility with Preservationist.
Decide what you want to happen when an alchemist uses a Strength mutagen (penalty to Int), or Cognaton (bonus to Int), and how that relates to the evolution points of these guys.
Beastbrewer: Some alchemists take the transformation of inert material into different material one step further and attempt to transform living matter. These crazed souls are the Beastbrewers.
Transmutative Lore: A beastbrewer adds the following extracts at the given extract levels:
* 1st - Bristle (APG), Magic Fang
* 2nd - Magic Fang, Greater
* 3rd - Atavism
* 4th - Animal Growth, Awaken, Transmogrify.
These extracts always count as infusions.
[Polymorph any object is a bad idea. That's why I didn't include it. Spells should generally not be given earlier than the spell's "main class" gets them. That's why Atavism, Animal Growth, Awaken, and Transmogrify are one level higher than you had them.]
Weird Understanding (Ex): The beastbrewer receives half his level (minimum 1) to Handle Animal skill checks and Knowledge (Nature). Handle Animal is a class skill for the beastbrewer.
This ability replaces Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, and Use Magic Device as class skills.
[So this is a weird way of doing it, but I don't want to copy and paste all of their skills to make the new list :). The skills that are replaced are not thematic at all for this type of guy.)
Alchemical Bond: The mark of a beastbrewer is his fantastical experiment that loyally follows him around. The bonded experiment follows the rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer alchemist level as his effective druid level, with these changes:
-The beastbrewer can select from the full list of animal companions.
-A bonded experiment has a limited number of evolution points like a summoner's eidolon. The number of evolution points granted is equal to 1/2 of the beastbrewer's level plus his Intelligence bonus. Once an evolution is chosen, it can't be changed as the eidolon's evolutions when the beastbrewer advances in level. An evolution must be fit for the beast's actual form; a lion can't have Wing buffet if he doesn't have Flight, for example. A bonded experiment has no free evolutions. It still has its natural attack forms, statistics and characteristics, though.
-A bonded experiment of less than Large size increases one size category at 7th level. If the beastbrewer wants to further enlarge a little companion, a Tiny experiment can become Small at the cost of 1 EP, and a Small experiment becomes Medium at the cost of 2 EP. Further increases in size follow the normal evolution rules.
-A bonded experiment qualifies for the Extra Evolution feat
-All extracts are counted as infusions when they are used on the bonded experiment.
This ability replaces the Bomb class feature, the Throw Anything bonus feat, and the Discovery gained at level 4.
[Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Keep it simple with only animal companions as a druid can get them, and don't allow the purchase of stuff from Universal Monster Rules. That just gets messy and the less "up to the GM", the better. There's also some crazy things that could be done if they can share discoveries, etc. This feature is going to be your main damage dealer, so it replaces Bombs and the bonus feat they get. Those are the normal main damage dealers of alchemists, so this is much more fair.]
Create Prodigy: At 8th level, the beastbrewer can temporarily apply any template to a creature with a 24-hours alchemical procedure and an expense of 5.000 gp. For the procedure to succeed, the beastbrewer must make a successful Craft (alchemy) check and a successful Knowledge (nature) check. The DC for both of these checks is equal to 20 + 5 per additional CR rating the template would add. If either check fails, the creature is unharmed but unchanged, and time and money are lost. The template can be a simple, acquired or even an inherited one. This effect lasts for a 7 days.
This ability replaces the Discovery received at 8th and 12th levels, Swift Alchemy, and Swift Poisoning.
[8th level is a bit better for when they should have 5k to throw around. Plus, better balanced. Changed the DC to make more sense, and not be auto-pass. Also, adding permanent templates is a bad idea. Even 7 weeks is pushing it, I believe. Perhaps something like 1000 gp per day you wish it to stay in effect. "You want it for a year? Give me 360some thousand gp, and I'll do it. Hopefully."]
--- Fin ---
I believe this is quite balanced. It gets some powerful abilities (remember, you can swap out your animal companion whenever, so you can still change the evolution points), but at some big costs. No bombs and you can't use poison as well means you have a lot of leeway when making archetypes. Mostly the bomb aspect, to be honest. Getting rid of poison helps, but I believe people rarely use it.
Giving up some discoveries as well as the other things keeps it in balanced.
This might even be slightly on the weak side.
I can also see allowing the experiment to take teamwork feats. Or somehow tweaking this to work with beastmorph.
I'm really inclined to pass all the evolution/templates stuff to the prestige class I want to create, che Monstercrafter (temporary name), since it's so more difficult than I thought handle that in a proper way as an archetype. So let's concentrate on the simpler version I posted...
So, Flak: do you agree on some extra extracts "free", as long as there are few (as in the Vivisectionist and Clone Master)? I'll remove Polymorph Any Object then, as suggested by Cheapy, and keep the other four (adding other ones could be too much).
I guess nobody argues on the new discovery or the feat/discovery trade. So the remaining problem's the animal companion. But I really think that it could be fair giving it at -3 for a discovery. After all, an animal companion at -3 at 4th level is an Animal domain power, and there are some domain powers (see Nobility) which give no other than a bonus feat. That's uneven for you yet?
Then, another idea: the beastbrewer could have a familiar instead of an animal companion (if it's worth a rogue talent, it could be easily worth a discovery as well).
Or better: apply to the experiment the rules for a monster cohort? He could get a template or two, or some EP, in place of advancing a level.
Cheapy: does the Weird Understanding ability add to the bonus on Craft (alchemy) or replace it, as suggested by you?
There's already a discovery for familiars. Bardess, keep in mind different abilities are worth different amounts to different builds. Not to mention your aberration & magical beast clause, which could get ridiculous quickly.
So what would you suggest? What would be even (based on the equivalence table we were using in the multiclass archetypes thread?) Without his bonded experiment, I feel that the archetype would be rather weak. Should he give up to the bombs or poison immunity entirely?
What if we adjudicate the level of the experiment based on that of a monster cohort? Would that be fair?
Well... re-reading all the thread, plus the other archetypes' descriptions... what about trying to make it a REAL alternative to the Vivisectionist all in all, taking in most of Cheapy's suggestions? (I liked names and flavor text too... I guess I should share this maternity with you when we have finished. Thanks!)
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Transmutative Lore: A beastbrewer adds the following extracts at the given extract levels:
* 1st - Bristle (APG), Magic Fang
* 2nd - Magic Fang, Greater
* 3rd - Atavism
* 4th - Animal Growth, Awaken, Transmogrify.
These extracts always count as infusions.
Weird Understanding (Ex): The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill, and receives half his level (minimum 1) to Handle Animal skill checks and Knowledge (Nature). Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, and Use Magic Device are not class skills for the beastbrewer.
Alchemical Bond: The mark of a beastbrewer is his fantastical experiment that loyally follows him around. The bonded experiment is received at 1st level and follows all the rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer alchemist level as his effective druid level, with these changes:
-The beastbrewer can select from the full list of animal companions.
-A bonded experiment has a limited number of evolution points like a summoner's eidolon. The number of evolution points granted is equal to 1/2 of the beastbrewer's level plus his Intelligence bonus. Once an evolution is chosen, it can't be changed as the eidolon's evolutions when the beastbrewer advances in level. An evolution must be fit for the beast's actual form; a lion can't have Wing buffet if he doesn't have Flight, for example. A bonded experiment has no free evolutions. It still has its natural attack forms, statistics and characteristics, though.
-A bonded experiment of less than Large size increases one size category at 7th level. If the beastbrewer wants to further enlarge a little companion, a Tiny experiment can become Small at the cost of 1 EP, and a Small experiment becomes Medium at the cost of 2 EP. Further increaeses in size follow the normal evolution rules.
-A bonded experiment qualifies for the Extra Evolution feat
-A beastbrewer can share extracts, mutagens and cognatogens with his bonded experiment.
This ability replaces the Bomb class feature and the Throw Anything bonus feat.
[Actually, I was thinking: why don't rule that the beastbrewer can't use mutagens/cognatogens on himself but ONLY on his experiment?!]
Create Prodigy: At 8th level, the beastbrewer can temporarily apply any template to a creature with a 24-hours alchemical procedure and an expense of 5.000 gp. For the procedure to succeed, the beastbrewer must make a successful Craft (alchemy) check and a successful Knowledge (nature) check. The DC for both of these checks is equal to 20 + 5 per additional CR rating the template would add. If either check fails, the creature is unharmed but unchanged, and time and money are lost. The template can be a simple, acquired or even an inherited one. This effect lasts for a 7 days, plus (optionally) 1 day for every 1000 gp more profused in the effort.
This ability replaces poison resistance and poison immunity.
[I feel poison use, swift alchemy and swift poisoning are good flavor for the beastbrewer, so they shoudn't be replaced. Too bad this way it's not compatible with Beastmorph, but oh, well].
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Moreover, the beastbrewer has access to the following new discovery:
Injected Mutagen- When the alchemist creates a mutagen, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The mutagen can now be stored in a syringe and injected in other beings. It will have just half effect and last half of the time if used on someone other from the alchemist who created it.
Prerequisite- Alchemist 8, Infuse mutagen discovery
And this SHOULD finally go. Many thanks to both of you for the criticism. Expecially to Flak who stole some time to the multiclass archetypes project for this. Flak, you're very hard to please sometime to say the least, but in the end it's good to HAVE worked with you! ;P
I'd say that this arrangement makes useless again the prestige class I was projecting. In exchange, it qualifies again the archetype as a possible multiclass archetype... what do you say, Flak?
I don't see what's multiclass archetype about it. It's far more reasonable now that you've traded out some class features, though. Still not quite there. I'd say animal companion is worth bombs; throw anything doesn't quite cover giving it mutagens and evolutions. Create prodigy is better than poison resistance and immunity, and also the cost should maybe depend on the CR adjustment of the template? I mean, it's easy to cheese up a skill check. And once you've done that, should half-dragon and advanced cost the same amount of GP? idk.
Good luck evening things out just a bit more.
Would giving up mutagens (to effect only the companion and not the beastbrewer) level things more? After all, for example, a tumor familiar can share both extracts and mutagens, so I think that the experiment should too (I forgot to paste the "no tumor familiar for the beastbrewer" sentence). Remember that differently from a druid's, the beastbrewer's companion can be Small or Tiny at the beginning. In fact, we could rule that it has to be. This would be a disadvantage at lower levels. We could as well not give it the automatical size increase at 4th level, and rule that any size increase has to be bought with evolution points.
As for Create Prodigy: We could "scale" the templates in time requested, money requested and level requested according the CR afforded (8th level- CR 1, 12th level- CR 2, 16th level- CR 3, 20th level- CR 4; 5.000 gp and 24 hours for point of CR bonus). What about a great discovery tailored on this ability?
If it's not a multiclass archetype for you, no problem, like I said.
Or what about this: eliminate Create Prodigy and re-enter Create Wondrous Creatures in place of a discovery, don't give up poison resistance and immunity, and give up poison use (that is, give poison use in place of swift poisoning and give up the latter). I still like the idea to give templates to monsters with alchemical procedures (see Inner Sea Magic), but maybe it's too great a power to be held in a simple archetype, and requests more thinking out. I'll rather rehexume my idea of the Monstercrafter alchemist prestige class for that.
So the final product should look like this...
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Transmutative Lore: A beastbrewer adds the following extracts at the given extract levels:
* 1st - Bristle (APG), Magic Fang
* 2nd - Magic Fang, Greater
* 3rd - Atavism
* 4th - Animal Growth, Awaken, Transmogrify.
These extracts always count as infusions.
Weird Understanding (Ex): The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill, and receives half his level (minimum 1) to Handle Animal skill checks and Knowledge (Nature). Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, and Use Magic Device are not class skills for the beastbrewer.
Alchemical Bond: The mark of a beastbrewer is his fantastical experiment that loyally follows him around. The bonded experiment is received at 1st level and follows all the rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer alchemist level as his effective druid level, with these changes:
-The beastbrewer can select from the full list of animal companions and familiars available (Tiny to Large animals).
-A bonded experiment has a limited number of evolution points like a summoner's eidolon. The number of evolution points granted is equal to 1/2 of the beastbrewer's level plus his Intelligence bonus. Once an evolution is chosen, it can't be changed as the eidolon's evolutions when the beastbrewer advances in level. An evolution must be fit for the beast's actual form; a lion can't have Wing buffet if he doesn't have Flight, for example. A bonded experiment has no free evolutions. It still has its natural attack forms, statistics and characteristics, though.
-A bonded experiment of less than Large size increases one size category at 7th level. If the beastbrewer wants to further enlarge a little companion, a Tiny experiment can become Small at the cost of 1 EP, and a Small experiment becomes Medium at the cost of 2 EP. Further increaeses in size follow the normal evolution rules.
-A bonded experiment qualifies for the Extra Evolution feat
-A beastbrewer can share extracts, mutagens and cognatogens with his bonded experiment.
This ability replaces the Bomb class feature, the Poison Use class feature and the Throw Anything bonus feat.
Create Wondrous Creatures: At 6th level, the beastbrewer can choose the Create Wondrous Creatures feat (from Secrets of the Alchemist) in place of a discovery.
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Moreover, the beastbrewer has access to the following new discovery:
Injected Mutagen- When the alchemist creates a mutagen, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The mutagen can now be stored in a syringe and injected in other beings. It will have just half effect and last half of the time if used on someone other from the alchemist who created it.
Prerequisite- Alchemist 8, Infuse mutagen discovery
This way, it's also compatible with Beastmorph, which makes much sense to me.
Nobody more? Can I suppose it's okay as it is?
A final suggestion: We could keep Create Prodigy as a great discovery.
Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Transmutative Lore: A beastbrewer adds the following extracts at the given extract levels:
* 1st - Bristle (APG), Magic Fang
* 2nd - Magic Fang, Greater
* 3rd - Atavism
* 4th - Animal Growth, Awaken, Transmogrify.
These extracts always count as infusions.
Weird Understanding (Ex): The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill, and receives half his level (minimum 1) to Handle Animal skill checks and Knowledge (Nature). Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, and Use Magic Device are not class skills for the beastbrewer.
Alchemical Bond: The mark of a beastbrewer is his fantastical experiment that loyally follows him around. The bonded experiment is received at 1st level and follows all the rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer alchemist level as his effective druid level, with these changes:
-The beastbrewer can select from the full list of animal companions and familiars available (Tiny to Large animals).
-A bonded experiment has a limited number of evolution points like a summoner's eidolon. The number of evolution points granted is equal to 1/2 of the beastbrewer's level plus his Intelligence bonus. Once an evolution is chosen, it can't be changed as the eidolon's evolutions when the beastbrewer advances in level. An evolution must be fit for the beast's actual form; a lion can't have Wing buffet if he doesn't have Flight, for example. A bonded experiment has no free evolutions. It still has its natural attack forms, statistics and characteristics, though.
-A bonded experiment of less than Large size increases one size category at 7th level. If the beastbrewer wants to further enlarge a little companion, a Tiny experiment can become Small at the cost of 1 EP, and a Small experiment becomes Medium at the cost of 2 EP. Further increaeses in size follow the normal evolution rules.
-A bonded experiment qualifies for the Extra Evolution feat
-A beastbrewer can share extracts, mutagens and cognatogens with his bonded experiment.
This ability replaces the Bomb class feature, the Poison Use class feature and the Throw Anything bonus feat.
Create Wondrous Creatures: At 6th level, the beastbrewer can choose the Create Wondrous Creatures feat (from Secrets of the Alchemist) in place of a discovery.
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.
Moreover, the beastbrewer has access to the following new discovery:
Injected Mutagen- When the alchemist creates a mutagen, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The mutagen can now be stored in a syringe and injected in other beings. It will have just half effect and last half of the time if used on someone other from the alchemist who created it.
Prerequisite- Alchemist 8, Infuse mutagen discovery
Great Discovery: The beastbrewer has access to the following great discovery:
Create Prodigy: A 20th-level beastbrewer can temporarily apply any template to a creature with a 24-hours alchemical procedure and an expense of 5.000 gp. For the procedure to succeed, the beastbrewer must make a successful Craft (alchemy) check and a successful Knowledge (nature) check. The DC for both of these checks is equal to 20 + 5 per additional CR rating the template would add. If either check fails, the creature is unharmed but unchanged, and time and money are lost. The template can be a simple, acquired or even an inherited one. This effect lasts for a 7 days, plus (optionally) 1 day for every 1000 gp more profused in the effort.
Special: The beastbrewer can’t select the Tumor Familiar discovery.
Bardess,
The most recent KQ has an archetype in it that might interest you. Actually, it would.
They get an animal companion that can take Extra Discovery, allowing them to be augmented.
It's called the Evolutionist, and it's fairly elegant.
Thanks. I'll give a look.
Actually, this is become a titanic task, so if someone made one better it can just make me happy.
Mind to review my very least idea- a new wildblood bloodline?
I'm a fan of your work, however, on the multiclassing arhetypes wiki there is no mention of evolutions.
There is in another page.