I have two inquisitor based builds I'm considering bringing into kingmaker and I'd like some help finishing them, mostly in the feat area. I figure whichever I don't use in kingmaker will go into a file and be saved for another opportunity. This will be my first pathfinder character, so I'm not super familiar with the good feats and such. Other players are a melee paladin and either a ranger, rogue, or ninja, ranged type regardless.
Stats (rolled): 17, 17, 15, 12, 10, 7
Archer Inquisitor:
Human
Build by progression: Inquisitor 2/Monk 3/Inquisitor 3-17
Archetypes: Heretic, Preacher, Zen Archer
Domain: Heresy Inquisition
Traits: Magical Knack, Some save booster (?)
12 Str 17+2 Wis
17 Dex 10 Int
15 Con 7 Cha
Feats:
H ?
1 Point Blank Shot
M1 Precise Shot, Perfect Strike
3 Deadly Aim
M2 Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (L. Bow)
M3 Point Blank Master
5 ?
7 ?
9 Many Shot
11 Extra Bane
13 ?
15 Improved Precise Shot
17 ?
19 ?
The basic idea here is to hammer away on wisdom, getting as much as possible to depend on it and putting stat boost priority (level, books, items) on wisdom. Bluff, Stealth, Intimidate, and Survival should all be fairly high, especially the first three. The build will be weak in the lower levels and pick up steam as I get access to bracers of AC, bonus damage abilities and weapon qualities, and many shot. Defenses should be pretty high all around thanks to focus on Wis and Dex, with con as a tertiary. Final ac could reach 60ish with the ac judgement and a choice spell or two, but will probably float around the low 50s effectively. I suppose I could switch races since I don't really need the feat, but I like the extra skills.
For the extra feats my first thoughts are crafting feats to make sure I get the items I want, probably wondrous and rods foremost. After that I'm kinda stuck. Judgement surge might be alright, since I think kingmaker tends to have lowish fights per day. Maybe something that plays off of my high bluff or intimidate? If I'm willing to delay wisdom to bow to-hit for 3 levels I could move extra bane to level 7, which might not be a terrible idea. If I can convince the GM maybe practiced caster and switch my trait for something else.
Mounted Inquisitor:
Human
Build by progression: Fighter 1/Inquisitor 1-2/Cleric 1/Inquisitor 3-18
Archetype: Heretic
Domains: Heresy Inquisition, Animal (feather)
Traits: Magical Knack, Heirloom Weapon (Lance or Falcata)
17+2 Str 17 Wis
12 Dex 10 Int
15 Con 7 Cha
Feats:
H Mounted Combat
1 Ride By Attack
F1 Spirited Charge
3 Power Attack
5 Weapon Focus (Falcata)
7 Extra Bane
9 Weapon Focus (Lance)
11 ?
13 ?
15 ?
17 ?
The dips get me heavy armor, martial proficiencies, and my companion. After that it's pretty much an inquisitor with the mounted combat feats. Not sure if I want to sword and shield or two hand; the latter is probably better, but the aesthetics of two handing a lance really bother me, to the point where I'll probably switch depending on if I'm on foot with falcata or mounted with lance.
Mount will probably be a T-rex, cause it's a freaking t-rex, or a roc for flight. Maybe a dire elk if I feel like fitting in.
Incidentally, is there a better way to get saddle surge than relying on my paladin buddy? I'd really like to get it on my spell list but I don't think that's going to happen.
For pure charging carnage I could sack heresy inquisition for destruction, but I'll lose my good mods to intimidate and bluff, so it kinda comes down to combat vs. out of combat. Another alternative is removing fighter since I don't really need the feat, taking barb 2 and anger inquisition instead of heresy, and using extra rage powerx2 to get pounce via beast totem. That would pretty much eat all of my spare feats, especially if I want to stay in heavy armor, but the damage output would be insane.
The crafting feats and judgement surge are again the only feats that come to mind, with arms and armor being more important to this build than the archer. Furious focus and dreadful carnage could what with stern gaze and wis to intimidate from heresy inquisition. Suggestions?
EDIT: Didn't realize boon companion was 3.5, guess I'll drop that and rework the progression a little
So yeah, mostly I'm looking for useful feats to fill up my later levels. As for which I'm going to play I honestly can't say. The archer is cool and generally more powerful, especially at later levels, but I might be kicking myself later if I pass the opportunity to play a mounted character in a campaign where he can actually use his mounted powers regularly. Plus the companion might mitigate some of the loss of personal power.
I'm not a big fan of Inquisitors doing anyting but melee (even though an archer is VERY effective), but if you can't decide between 2 builds and have feats to spare in both of them, why not combine them? Make a mounted archer! 40 ft movement + full-attack sounds good to me. And if you focus on ranged attacks, you won't really need many (if any) mounted feats.
As long as your mount only moves its normal speed, you take no attack penalties. Sure, you are limited to a shortbow instead of a longbow but with all those extra damage sources (bane, deadly aim, judgement, buffs) having a d6 instead of a d8 won't matter much.
Zen Archers strength is his ability to gain feats quickly, witch is important to archers at the start. So in the first build I would take Zen Archer levels first (first 3). Especially, since you have a small group the 3rd level Improved Point Blank Shot is gonna be handy. Since you can use bow with flurry you effectively have Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot & Rapid Shot at the first level. Deflect Arrows us a good feat from the ZA's bonus list (as long as GM agrees that you can hold Bow in 1 hand... only need 2 hand when firing; witch I think is assumed when they included Deflect Arrows to Zen Archer feats). You don't need to take Rapid Shot before level 7 as your attacks only go down using it (you need it as prerequisite for Many Shot only).
Yeah ZA gets so many feats you are free to choose a couple of non-archery feats. I would probably test Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard & In Harm's Way to take my part of the pain, if the pally is lone in the front.
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In the 2nd build I would definately include Boon Companion feat. And probably drop Cleric level.
I'm not a big fan of Inquisitors doing anyting but melee (even though an archer is VERY effective), but if you can't decide between 2 builds and have feats to spare in both of them, why not combine them? Make a mounted archer! 40 ft movement + full-attack sounds good to me. And if you focus on ranged attacks, you won't really need many (if any) mounted feats.
The issue with combining them is that I lose stat efficiency, since I'd need the dex for shooting and strength for lancing guys. That said it might work if the enemies aren't all that tough. With rolled stats it's a little harder to shift things around. 17s in str and dex, 12 con, 15 wisdom I guess, maybe drop the fighter level since I don't need heavy armor any more, but the feat is more useful. Drop the monk too. Hmm...
Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Zen Archers strength is his ability to gain feats quickly, witch is important to archers at the start. So in the first build I would take Zen Archer levels first (first 3). Especially, since you have a small group the 3rd level Improved Point Blank Shot is gonna be handy. Since you can use bow with flurry you effectively have Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot & Rapid Shot at the first level. Deflect Arrows us a good feat from the ZA's bonus list (as long as GM agrees that you can hold Bow in 1 hand... only need 2 hand when firing; witch I think is assumed when they included Deflect Arrows to Zen Archer feats). You don't need to take Rapid Shot before level 7 as your attacks only go down using it (you need it as prerequisite for Many Shot only).
Yeah ZA gets so many feats you are free to choose a couple of non-archery feats. I would probably test Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard & In Harm's Way to take my part of the pain, if the pally is lone in the front.
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In the 2nd build I would definately include Boon Companion feat. And probably drop Cleric level.
Starting with inquisitor gets me the heresy inquisition and heretic skill bonuses right off the bat. It's really a question of how useful social skills are in the first mod of kingmaker, which to my understanding is mainly stomping around in the woods. The stealth bonus will probably be pretty useful, but mitigated by the check penalty on armor (breastplate probably).
I had rapid shot in the zen archer bonuses so my main feats had room for whatever, but yeah, if there's nothing particularly useful may as well grab something else and wait on rapid shot until 7. Unless I wait to take monk 3 until level 8, which lets me grab extra bane at 7. Difference between wisdom to attack for 3 levels (about +2 over dex I imagine) and a large (100% at 7) boost to bane time for 4 levels. I'd be worse at levels 5-6, even to better depending on total encounter rounds per day at 7, and better from 8-11. Also slipping in craft wondrous ASAP probably isn't a bad idea if I plan to take it at all, mostly so I can start getting my AC bracers.
For the mounted build I had boon companion, but I removed it because I'm not sure if it's pathfinder or 3.5. Should have mentioned form the start we're PF stuff only. The cleric level gets me a second domain, which is useful for allowing me to either a) keep heresy inquisition to make my bluff and intimidate good or b) take destruction to better approximate the cavalier's massive damage charges.
So to confirm, both builds have the key feats they need for their base fighting concept? Haven't missed anything critical?
Also a general question on the campaign: will having strong bluff and intimidate checks be useful, or could the paladin diplomacy away pretty much any situation where they might come in handy?
EDIT: So I finally found a passage that confirms boon companion as PF material, so that's back in at level 5 on the mounted build. WF goes to the end of the line.
The issue with combining them is that I lose stat efficiency, since I'd need the dex for shooting and strength for lancing guys.
Why would you want to use a lance anyway? Keeping your distance from the enemies (because your mount can move without you spending an action on it) while making a full-attack every single round will most likely result in much more overall damage while keeping you ot of harm's way.
A single super powerful charge is nice, but shooting 2 arrows per round, both with the +2d6+2 damage bonus from bane (and possibly more from judgement, divine favor and other damage sources) can easily be done by level 5. By level 9 (or 8 if you take a level in monk or fighter at 8) you can fire 4 arrows per round, 3 of which deal the additional 2d6 from bane and all 4 of them get the bonus damage from judgement and most other sources. So basically you can either use a lance for tripple damage or a bow for 4 times damage while being at a perfectly save distance from your enemy.
To be honest, I think you think too much. You have multiple classes, archetypes and whatnot. I'd just play a pure archer-inquisitor with the feather domain and be done with it. The inquisitor is already the master of 2 social skills (intimidate and sense motive). Having a good Bluff score is also quite easy.
Sure, your feat progresion will be a bit slower without fighter or monk levels. But it won't hurt that much and you gain your vital inquisitor abilites (bane, bigger judgement-bonus, more and more powerful spells) that much faster.
For the mounted build I had boon companion, but I removed it because I'm not sure if it's pathfinder or 3.5. Should have mentioned form the start we're PF stuff only.
Well, the feat is also in Pathfinder SRD.
Quote:
As long as your mount only moves its normal speed, you take no attack penalties. Sure, you are limited to a shortbow instead of a longbow but with all those extra damage sources (bane, deadly aim, judgement, buffs) having a d6 instead of a d8 won't matter much.
You can fire Composite Longbow mounted. Only normal Longbow has the mount limitation. Check the entry:
How are are you a Heretic with the Heresy Inquisition?
The archetype is about being a heretic, and the inquisition is about rooting such evil out. It's... contradictory?
I know they mesh mechanically, but it seems like something of a stretch. If you can make it work and your GM agrees, then power to you. Just struck me as curious.
How are are you a Heretic with the Heresy Inquisition?
The archetype is about being a heretic, and the inquisition is about rooting such evil out. It's... contradictory?
I know they mesh mechanically, but it seems like something of a stretch. If you can make it work and your GM agrees, then power to you. Just struck me as curious.
Dm is of the "pick whatever abilities you like, fluff after" thought camp. That said it isn't totally unworkable if you want your character to make sense; the character is a converted heretic using his skills and know how to aid the church in their hunt for whatever reason, maybe to right past wrongs or to avoid punishment (ie: help our inquisition or be executed deal). Alternatively you could reverse it and have him be an ex heresy inquisitor turned heretic for whatever reason- one of those OMG we're actually the evil guys, I must do something! moments. Both examples are pretty common in video games and movies.
I have a character with a build very similar to your archer build.
Currently Mnk3/Inq4, with focus split between combat effectiveness and utility (Init of +10, Perception of +22, Sense Motive of +16, Diplomacy of +12).
In combat, I'm lagging behind the ranger in damage output, and I'm a bit squishy. However I went with the Travel domain, took Fleet twice, and I rely on maneuverability to keep out of claw's reach.
I expect to be more more effective in combat at Inq5, with the Bane ability.
I'm having a lot of fun with the class, but make no mistake, it's definitely 'suboptimal', and the challenges aren't so bad that it makes it unfun.
I have a character with a build very similar to your archer build.
Currently Mnk3/Inq4, with focus split between combat effectiveness and utility (Init of +10, Perception of +22, Sense Motive of +16, Diplomacy of +12).
In combat, I'm lagging behind the ranger in damage output, and I'm a bit squishy. However I went with the Travel domain, took Fleet twice, and I rely on maneuverability to keep out of claw's reach.
I expect to be more more effective in combat at Inq5, with the Bane ability.
I'm having a lot of fun with the class, but make no mistake, it's definitely 'suboptimal', and the challenges aren't so bad that it makes it unfun.
Interesting to hear. I think you're going to see a relatively large performance increase once bane and manyshot hit. Whether or not you can get buffs off beforehand can make a big difference too. For me at least the choice to go with monk was mainly a defensive one, and as I said it helps to allow for greater focus on wisdom to increase skills via archetype and inquisition choice; it does noticeably slow the acquisition and improvement of key offensive abilities like judgement and bane. At higher levels my instinct is to say the the ranger will be the one lagging, as unless there are some good ranger spells out there they'll be hard pressed to match (greater)bane, destruction judgement, and divine power. Of course, so long as the character is enjoyable it doesn't really matte if you never catch up.
Thanks for the input, always good to hear how it's going for active players of a class.
It's my understanding that boon companion is from Paizo right before pathfinder came out, just like Rise of the Runelords. And really, if he lets you be a Heretic with the Heresy Inquisition, I am sure he'll allow BC.
At higher levels my instinct is to say the the ranger will be the one lagging, as unless there are some good ranger spells out there they'll be hard pressed to match (greater)bane, destruction judgement, and divine power.
I agree with that. Inquisitor is kind of class that is on the weaker at the start, but gains more than anyone else (from martial classes). Yes, there are great Ranger Spells for archers. But if Ranger is not Spirit Ranger variant his spell slots exhaust very quickly. Well actually Inquisitors Bane turns are very lited resource also - so its nova class.
Instant Enemy gives +6/+6, if you are not already getting it. Very, very strong spell. And swift action.
Bow Spirit is the only way I know to raise # of attacks after haste.
Gravity Bow is nice to have, but only +2,5 dmg / arrow.
At higher levels my instinct is to say the the ranger will be the one lagging, as unless there are some good ranger spells out there they'll be hard pressed to match (greater)bane, destruction judgement, and divine power.
I agree with that. Inquisitor is kind of class that is on the weaker at the start, but gains more than anyone else (from martial classes). Yes, there are great Ranger Spells for archers. But if Ranger is not Spirit Ranger variant his spell slots exhaust very quickly. Well actually Inquisitors Bane turns are very lited resource also - so its nova class.
Instant Enemy gives +6/+6, if you are not already getting it. Very, very strong spell. And swift action.
Bow Spirit is the only way I know to raise # of attacks after haste.
Gravity Bow is nice to have, but only +2,5 dmg / arrow.
Oh. You are lacking Improved Critical from your builds (especially Archer).
Thanks for posting those spells, it's nice to be able to point the (possible) ranger player to useful things since we're all new to PF.
With regard to improved critical I was just going to keen my weapons, since I was thinking of filling empty slots with craft feats, but I might go ahead and add that anyway to save a +1 since I don't have a ton of ideas. Incidentally what is there that's good to put on a lance for charging? All of the magic weapon damage adders that I see are plus dice, so no spirited charge multiplication.
I like Holy for any weapon, since DR/good is quite common. It doesn't get multiplied in the charge, but in case you have to dismount lance can also be used with 2 hands as a reach weapon. Witch is nice since you don't anyway have the staying power of Paladin & there are sometimes so narrow spaces that the 2nd melee fighter has to be in the 2nd line to do anything. Don't know about this adventure path (and kind of good since it means no spoilers). We alter the GM between adventure paths (currently in Council of Thieves) and so don't read the stuff before hand (in case one doesn't happen to be GM - I'm GM in Council of Thieves - our current Adventure path).
