the concept is cool, however vestigal arms says something along the lines of: doesn't offer extra/off hand attacks.
Specific beats general, your concept doesn't work. The Alchemist can nova good enough without 2 extra arms.
doesn't multiweapon fighting lower the penalties?
Benefit: Penalites ... are reduces ...
it doesn't add extra attacks, sorry to disappoint.
By RAI (of the vestigal arms) and I'm pretty sure by RAW as well, those arms do not grant extra attacks, you can attack with them, but you do not get more attacks than if you wouldn't have them.
If you normally have 3 arms, you get 2 vestigal ones, you can get the feat, and have 3 attacks that you get make with 3 of your 5 arms.
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doesn't multiweapon fighting lower the penalties?
Benefit: Penalites ... are reduces ...
it doesn't add extra attacks, sorry to disappoint.By RAI (of the vestigal arms) and I'm pretty sure by RAW as well, those arms do not grant extra attacks, you can attack with them, but you do not get more attacks than if you wouldn't have them.
If you normally have 3 arms, you get 2 vestigal ones, you can get the feat, and have 3 attacks that you get make with 3 of your 5 arms.
If you take the discovery you normally have three arms. It's not an on/ off thing, you physically grow an extra arm.
The best use I'd say is duelwielding 2handed weapons.
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Just so we're all on the same page:
Vestigial Arm (Ex): The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time). An alchemist may take this discovery up to two times.
So you can certainly use the extra arm to wield a weapon with Two Weapon Fighting. So for example you might use two arms for weapons and a third for a buckler and a wand.
I have to revise my previous opinion though, the way it's worded I think the intent is that you are still limited to attacking with two arms per round but you get your choice of which two arms.
to Ogre:
in my example the alchemist has a race with 3 arms, and takes 2 vestigal arms (the maximum allowed).
Thus the race would be able to get 3 attacks, but not 5.
dualwielding 2handed weapons is a nice picture, I hope tough that rangers won't dabble just for that in the alchemist for a single level and a feat.
My first tought was about carrying multiple weapon, perhaps even hidden and using the most appropriate for the situation. Or even using a bow while having a shield and a dagger.
EDIT: ninjaed by Orgre, therefor removed a question already answered.
Whoa whoa whoa, let's get back to that dualwielding twohanded weapons.
I could have a greatsword in one pair of arms, and a guisarme in the other? Awesome!
What happens if you use all for arms for say... a polearm? If two hands gives you 1.5 str, wouldn't four give you.. 2.5 str?
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dualwielding 2handed weapons is a nice picture, I hope tough that rangers won't dabble just for that in the alchemist for a single level and a feat
Well it's debatable if you can do it with a 1 level dip. The feat requires the "Discovery class feature" which you don't get until second level. So I think you have to take 2 levels.
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seeing all this made me look up TWF rules again, fighting with two two handed weapons looks like it'll give -4/-4 on attack rolls... have him use extracts of bull's strength and the greater and grand mutagen discoveries you're looking at a +8 -> +12 bonus on strength during combat. and at level 14 you can pretty much wake up in the morning, have you're mutagen and be ready to destroy stuff all day long.
Interesting note for rangers wanting to do this, if you only dip two level into alchemist and get a third arm you should be able to do TWF with the normal -2/-2 if you were to use say a great sword and a short sword.
although all this is stepping into MAD territory now
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I still wonder why they mention two-weapon fighting when mutiweapon fighting auto replaces it once you have more than two arms. The wording of the discovery seems to say yes and no at the same. I also wonder if I replace one of the arms with a graft arm, the whole possible no mutiweapon fighting confusion would be put to rest.
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I still wonder why they mention two-weapon fighting when mutiweapon fighting auto replaces it once you have more than two arms. The wording of the discovery seems to say yes and no at the same. I also wonder if I replace one of the arms with a graft arm, the whole possible no mutiweapon fighting confusion would be put to rest.
Ummm. I guess I missed the auto replace thing. Where is that exactly?
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As written, Multiweapon Fighting does not grant extra attacks, it only reduces the penalties on them. So, the best use of the extra arms would be wielding a two-handed weapon, a one-handed weapon and a shield.
Wielding two two-handed weapons would not be very good since the second two-handed weapon would still count as an off-hand weapon.
If Vestigal Arms and Multiweapon Fighting gave extra attack, the best weapon would probably be unarmed strikes. Add the bestial mutagen and tentacles and you'd have, with Multiweapon Fighting and Multiattack, seven attacks at -2 BAB (nine if you're allowed foot claws), all of them enchanted through a single Amulet of Mighty Fists.
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I still wonder why they mention two-weapon fighting when mutiweapon fighting auto replaces it once you have more than two arms. The wording of the discovery seems to say yes and no at the same. I also wonder if I replace one of the arms with a graft arm, the whole possible no mutiweapon fighting confusion would be put to rest.Ummm. I guess I missed the auto replace thing. Where is that exactly?
The auto replace is in the description of the multiweapon fighting feat.
Has there been any clarification on this? I'd love to make a quad-wielder.
The thing with Vestigial Arms, is that they are vestigial,
they aren't really fully developed arms. So they can be used to hold things, or to help wield weapons, but the aren't really developed enough to be used for extra weapons. So they added the text that you don't get additional attacks (like you normally would if you simply had more arms)
So Multiweapon Fighting does automatically replace TWF since he has more arms, but it is functionally identical to TWF since you only have the same number of attacks as you would with two arms.
my 2c.
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Wielding two two-handed weapons would not be very good since the second two-handed weapon would still count as an off-hand weapon.
This.
Also, i dont think there are any light two-hand weapons, so anyone fighting with two two-handers would incur even more penalities to their attacks. Not worth it.Go with a two-hander, a light weapon and a shield.