The thread requesting some Finesse Fighter love in Ultimate Combat got me thinking about this.
Does the max dex bonus determined by armor also limit the dex bonus that modifies the wearer's reflex save?
or the finesse'd weapons Attack bonus from dex? Bows? Skills?
Maximum Dex Bonus: This number is the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC that this type of armor allows. Dexterity bonuses in excess of this number are reduced to this number for the purposes of determining the wearer's AC. Heavier armors limit mobility, reducing the wearer's ability to dodge blows. This restriction doesn't affect any other Dexterity-related abilities.
Even if a character's Dexterity bonus to AC drops to 0 because of armor, this situation does not count as losing his Dexterity bonus to AC.
A character's encumbrance (the amount of gear carried, including armor) may also restrict the maximum Dexterity bonus that can be applied to his Armor Class.
Shields: Shields do not affect a character's maximum Dexterity bonus, except for tower shields.
Only affects the AC bonus.
Only affects the AC bonus.
Bless you and your expert bold-fu.
I am considering house ruling to the contrary and then also applying ACP toward dexterity-modified attack rolls in addition to skills. I need to mull it over some more. At least the ACP applying to dex-modded attack rolls - that might be a bit of an over reaction. I think the Max Dex for AC = Max Dex for Ref Saves is fair and sensible though.
Only affects the AC bonus.Bless you and your expert bold-fu.
I am considering house ruling to the contrary and then also applying ACP toward dexterity-modified attack rolls in addition to skills. I need to mull it over some more. At least the ACP applying to dex-modded attack rolls - that might be a bit of an over reaction. I think the Max Dex for AC = Max Dex for Ref Saves is fair and sensible though.
Dex based fighting already sucks. No need to make it more sucking.
That does not mean I would never play a dex based fighter, but it would for RP if I did so.
It only sucks if you take the wrong feats or build your character dumb (which, granted, almost everybody does when making a DEX-fighter).
I assume you want Dervish Dance, but what else would you do that others don't? (Watch us wind up in advice).
Dex based fighting already sucks.It only sucks if you take the wrong feats or build your character dumb (which, granted, almost everybody does when making a DEX-fighter).
Fair enough. It sucks from an optimization point of view. The only way to make a good(not just decent) dex based fighter that is not an archer is to take the feat that adds dex to damage.
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The only way to make a good(not just decent) dex based fighter that is not an archer is to take the feat that adds dex to damage.
Unfortunately it requires you to use a specific weapon in one hand. IMO, while useful, it's still weak compared to a STR-based fighter -- because you're looking at an absence of 50% STR bonus damage as well as forfeiting x3 Power Attack modifier (if you have PA at all). The STR fighter can wear armor to off-set his lousy DEX; the DEX fighter can do little feat-wise to off-set his lousy bonuses to damage.
In my experience, a DEX-fighter is severely suboptimal at high level if all he has done is focus on trying to keep up on the full-attack "DPR Olympics", when he's better served by taking long tours of base classes that add tons of flexibility and situational benefits -- such a rogue for lots of sneak-attack d6s, or paladin (which can really multiple a crapload of Smite on a extended-threat crit).