Is this combat combo option legal?


Rules Questions


ok just planning options for my Figther/wizard...

round 1 cast true strike as standard action and then move into combat.

round 2 use true strike bonus to attack, using power attack and fight defensively...

Is it ok to use power attack and fight defensivly??

tks in advance..


No problem that I can see. You sacrifice attack bonus which is more than made up for by the True Strike, and should you get an AoO chance it's heavily penalised because the True Strike won't apply. Probably one of the reasons they nerfed Combat Expertise and Power Attack in Pathfinder (imagine a 5th level fighter/1st level sorcerer with PA and CE by 3.5).

In your example, in round 2 you might also want to move away from combat while still having the bonus for fighting defensively so you can more easily repeat the effect.

Given armour penalties on spell casting, you might want to take sorcerer instead of wizard though since there are limited spells unaffected by armour so you may find you only ever cast True Strike anyway.

Grand Lodge

I see nothing that prevents you from using PA and Fighting Defensively at the same time.

However, True Strike will only apply on the first attack made, and the penalties will remain the rest of the round. You can mitigate this by only making one attack and moving away, but you will still be at a minus to hit on any AoOs you make that round. You will get PA on those AoOs if they hit however.

Dark Archive

It's not a very good option. The character is probably better of just moving into combat and attacking or using a two-handed weapon and casting Shield instead.


Perhaps better to just get a magic item that lets you cast True Strike 3/day or so, instead of wasting a level on it.
Unless there's other things you want out of it.


ok tks for that guys...

now what are the options if i added Cleave to the mix?

i know i wouldnt get true strike bonus and would get the defensive penalty and power attack minus but an attempted second hit is better than none..

round 1 cast true strike and move into combat

Round 2 activate true strike, fight defensive use power attack, use standard action for cleave and then follow through with cleave with all the added negative modifers...

is this ok and legal??


I don't see why it shouldn't be legal... if it's worth it, is another question.

Just full attacking once you have 2 or more attacks might be worth more than this tactic though.


yeah i know shield spell would give me same effects but sometimes u just need to know yr going hit say if the monster is getting low on Hp's..

anyway just thinking of attacks options to keep it fresh and mix it up on occasion..

Grand Lodge

As I understand it, you have to fight defensively as a standard or full round action. You can modify it with PA because PA is not an action. But Cleave is a standard action, meaning you have to Cleave or Fight Defensively. So you can add PA to Cleave but not Fight Defensively.


once i get two attacks thats cool but right now just planning ahead as we will be starting at lvl 1 in a new campaign and our first Pathfinder campaign, so this wont come into play until i hit lvl 2 anyway...


i cant see the anywhere that fighting defensive is a standard action in the blurb it dosnt mention that unless its stated somewhere else


the text says " Fighting defensively as a full round action: u can choose to fight defensively when taking a full-attack action. if u do so, u take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to ac for the same round"

No mention of it costing a standard action..

Grand Lodge

Yep, you're right. I was focusing on the header more than the rule itself.


A friend in a 3.5 campaign has this as his main 'trick' and is very effective against high ac high hp enemies (dragons). He had an item of TS 3/day made (nb - I keep meaning to start a thread on 'game breaking magic items' because there are a couple 1st level spells which can be made into permanent items for next to no cost which totally cock play balance - TS isn't one of them I don't think, though our GM might beg to differ) and in a fight with a big bad it's much more effective to guarantee a hit with maximum power attack every other round, than do six full attacks and maybe hit three times. With Pathfinder's nerfed power attack, the cost/benefit is greatly reduced, but if the target's AC is such that you won't hit at least 50% of the time, you are at least breaking even.

For your character, take sorcerer as your spell using class and have expeditious retreat as your other spell...which has the added bonus of meaning you don't dump charisma!

The Exchange

There's two sections on 'Fighting Defensively' in the Combat chapter: page 184 'Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action', and page 187 'Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action', so you can do either.

When your character starts getting a high enough BAB to use multiple attacks, taking the Vital Strike Feat tree will keep this tactic a particularly effective one - you're only really planning on hitting with the True Strike enhanced blow anyway, so may as well get the extra damage and extra move action that a Vital Strike gets over a Full Attack. Use a big weapon...

Liberty's Edge

The Furious Focus feat would be your friend, as well, since it negates the PA penalty to hit for your first attack, as well.

When you really want to hit....


This combo would work even better if you were a single classed magus. You would have the added advantage of action economy, spell combat alows you to cast a spell and make a full atack in the same round thanks to their spell combat ability.

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