Question on if there was a mistake in Advanced Players Guide under Perfect Balance with TW Warrior


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Perfect Balance again reduces the TWF penalties -1 which stackes with Improved Balance, but when wielding two one-handed weapons (off hand counts as light thanks to IB) does he get the reduction from Improved Balance? If not, then why repeat what Improved Balance does for using one-handed weapon in off hand?


Jack Rift wrote:
Perfect Balance again reduces the TWF penalties -1 which stackes with Improved Balance, but when wielding two one-handed weapons (off hand counts as light thanks to IB) does he get the reduction from Improved Balance? If not, then why repeat what Improved Balance does for using one-handed weapon in off hand?

I think what it is trying to say is that if you are using a 1H weapon in the off hand, the only benefit gained is a -1 to the penalty for the main hand weapon. So with Perfect Balance and a light off hand weapon (assuming you have the TWF feat) there is NO penalty. With a 1H off handed weapon there would be a -1 penalty for the main hand and a -2 penalty for the off hand. At least that's my take on it...


Improved Balance (Ex) wrote:
At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties.
Perfect Balance (Ex) wrote:
At 15th level, the penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by an additional –1 for a two-weapon warrior. This benefit stacks with improved balance. If he is using a one-handed weapon in his off hand, treating it as a light weapon, he uses the normal light weapon penalties.

The first sentence of each is pretty clear. Under "normal" two weapon fighting (a light weapon in the off hand), you reduce the penalties by -1 and then another -1. The second sentence of the first one is pretty clear as well: You can choose to forgo the -1 to instead wield an one hand weapon as if it were light. The way I read the second part of the second power is that "Nothing changes". If you're taking advantage of the alternate use of Improved Balance, you continue using the normal light weapon penalties. They don't improve.

Effectively, it looks like this (L = light offhand, O = one-handed offhand):

  • At 10th level: L = -2/-2, O = -4/-4
  • At 11th level: L = -1/-1, O = -2/-2
  • At 15th level: L = -0/-0, O = -2/-2

    This is almost the same progression as what the 3.5 PrC of the Tempest granted, with the exception that at the equivalent of Improved Balance, O would be -3/-3. Really, for Paizo, it would have been much simpler, and accomplished the same thing, to remove all the conditions and just say "The penalties reduce by 1" twice.


  • Thanks guys, unless I hear offical ruling, I'll just have to figure it out depending on who is Dming or if I am and then see what fits the character best. I have bouncing between both ideas for a while. If the second opinion is correct then say under improved balance just say at lvl 15 the penalties for normal TWF are again reduce by -1.

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