I don't understand this racist assumption that goblins can't be strong. I, myself, am rippling with muscles, as my 14 Strength will attest.
Anyway, I don't have any answers for your questions, but give the gobs a couple of levels in rogue for the sneak attack damage and tell your players Doodlebug Anklebiter sent 'em!
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About goblin attacks: You should be making the goblins as if they were NPCs--goblin is a race, just like human. So you take the racial goblin traits from the RIGHT-hand column in the bestiary and add class levels (for a CR2 goblin, you'd have level 4 warriors or level 3 fighters).
The BAB for these goblins is +3 if they're fighters, or +4 if warriors. Remember that a small creature also gets +1 to its melee and ranged attacks. And if you give them masterwork shortswords and 12 Str, they should be attacking at a +6 or +7 bonus, and doing 1d4+1 damage. The low damage should balance out the high attack rolls.
Remember that the "monster creation" tables in the back of the Bestiary are mostly just guidelines, especially when dealing with class levels. And the stat block given on the goblin page is just an example of one thing a goblin could be. You don't actually use the stat block when making goblins for your PCs to fight, just the racial stats on the right-hand side. It's the same process as creating human bandits, or an elven mage NPC.
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On a related note, would it be reasonable to adjust these goblins to medium size? You know, since they're going to be running with the big boys anyway? :P
Either just use Hobgoblins or have the Goblins drink potions of Enlarge Person or something as they run into battle. I suppose as long as you have a reasonable explanation in case a player asks why they are so large, it'd be fine though.
Basically since goblins do not have racial hit dice I should make them as though they were a regular character. I think that was my confusion in attempting to use the Monster Building rules in the Bestiary.
More racist trolling. I am a regular character.
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On a related note, would it be reasonable to adjust these goblins to medium size? You know, since they're going to be running with the big boys anyway? :PEither just use Hobgoblins
That's probably your best bet. Give them some levels in Fighter, and you can either just call them hobgoblins, or even rule for your setting that goblins and hobgoblins are different life-stages of the same race. Perhaps, like barghests, a goblin that has survived the frenetic 'larval' stage of goblin, and gotten appropriate kills, or eaten certain foods, or been touched by fell powers, falls into a coma for a month and wakes up twice as tall and less prone to wild and crazy behavior, as a hobgoblin.
Alternately, if you want to keep the size small critters, you could say that goblins, millenia ago, came from the First World / fey realms / Shadow Plane, and that the bog-standard goblin uses standard rules, but others are 'purebloods' and retain some of their ancient fey magics, and use the stats of Drow (complete with spell like abilities) or Dark Creepers or something.
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@malebranche I see what you're saying, and was starting to see that that might be the way to go. Basically since goblins do not have racial hit dice I should make them as though they were a regular character. I think that was my confusion in attempting to use the Monster Building rules in the Bestiary.On a related note, would it be reasonable to adjust these goblins to medium size? You know, since they're going to be running with the big boys anyway? :P
Thanks
JM
You can adjust the goblins to medium in several ways.
1) Apply the giant template that you see in the back of the Bestiary.2) Use hobgoblins.
3) Use the same stats you'd use for small goblins, and just pretend they're medium--it won't change anything in terms of rules, it'll just be a cosmetic difference.
And @Doodlebug: I feel your pain. I'm playing a goblin detective in one game and a goblin paladin in another. :)
Goblin paladins rock!
I'm preparing for a new campaign in which my PC's will be going up against some beefed up goblins. I've got a party of 6 with an APL of 4(3 + 1 for 6 or more players), and I want to design some challenging encounters for them with some goblins. According to what I've read that should be a CR of 5. That's about a 1600xp budget which should accommodate 2 CR 2's and a CR 1 I believe.
Not sure why nobody's corrected this.
A 3rd level Goblin Fighter is CR 2.
2 3rd level goblin fighter's are CR 4.
3 3rd level goblin fighter's are CR 5.
4 3rd level goblin fighter's are CR 6.
If the party is APL 4, then to get a hard fight, it would be APL + 2 in CR. In other words, you need 4 3rd level goblin fighters to make a hard encounter.
I'd personally go with 2 fighters, 1 rogue, and 1 cleric. Or, 2 fighters, 1 rogue, and 1 oracle.
If you want to use warriors and adepts, go with 3 levels of each, and 6 goblins (1 for each PC) to get the same effect.
Unless these particular goblins have strengths of at least 14--and I find this kind of unlikely in a goblin--
Why not?
If there are halflings with 18 strength, then goblins with 14 str aren't that weird.Bestiary entry are for "average" members of the species. Not every human is the same either. Neither is every goblin.
You could also give them Weapon Finesse and high dex.
I plan on arming the goblins with short swords. According to table 1-1, the CR 2's damage would be somewhere between 7 and 10, but a short sword for a small creature only deals 1d4. What am I missing here?
Str bonus for example. Or the standard fighter feat: Power Attack.
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More racist trolling. I am a regular character.Basically since goblins do not have racial hit dice I should make them as though they were a regular character. I think that was my confusion in attempting to use the Monster Building rules in the Bestiary.
I consider the term "trolling" to be racist itself. Watch yourself when you make accusations.
More racist trolling. I am a regular character.Basically since goblins do not have racial hit dice I should make them as though they were a regular character. I think that was my confusion in attempting to use the Monster Building rules in the Bestiary.
I consider the term "trolling" to be racist itself. Watch yourself when you make accusations.
I will not stand for your condescending politically-correct oneupmanship!
All trolls love me! I am the Burgomeister of Troll Town!
And give them all the Phalanx Fighting from the Complete Warrior!! Your players will revile you forever!
He didn't say "hard" though, he said he wanted some "challenging" fights, which would be APL + 1.
While three CR 2s make for a little bit tougher fight than two CR 2s and a CR 1, both are considered a CR 5 battle, so either should work for him.
It's 6 PCs at level 3.
3 level 2 goblins are not going to be a challenge. Sorry, they won't. 6 level 2 goblins will be a challenge. But not 3. You might as well send 3 housecats out.
And would be far more interesting, to boot.