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Is there an official ruling on which weapon groups weapons from the APG and other non-core sources fall into for the purposes of the Fighter's Weapon Training class feature?
I'm considering creating a lucerne hammer-wielding fighter for possible PFS convention play, and would really like to know whether it counts as a hammer or a polearm for such purposes.
Is there an official ruling on which weapon groups weapons from the APG and other non-core sources fall into for the purposes of the Fighter's Weapon Training class feature?
I'm considering creating a lucerne hammer-wielding fighter for possible PFS convention play, and would really like to know whether it counts as a hammer or a polearm for such purposes.
No. It is up to the GM, and some weapons can fall into more than one category
Weapon Training (Ex): ........ Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the fighter's Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group.
Weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups):
I would place it in both groups, but the final choice is up to the GM.
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Is there an official ruling on which weapon groups weapons from the APG and other non-core sources fall into for the purposes of the Fighter's Weapon Training class feature?
I'm considering creating a lucerne hammer-wielding fighter for possible PFS convention play, and would really like to know whether it counts as a hammer or a polearm for such purposes.
When it comes down to picking the hammer or polearm weapon's group for a lucern hammer, I would think picking the polearm group would be a safer choice than the hammer group. Sure you can argue that the lucern hammer basically behaves as a hammer with a really long shaft, but it's really hard to say it's NOT a polearm.
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I would place it in both groups, but the final choice is up to the GM.That is problematic in PFS play, as this character would be for convention play and playing under multiple GMs.
I'd agree that it would probably be considered a polearm, but wanted to know if an official ruling existed.
For whatever its worth, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. I agree, ideally, our GM's (Mark & Hyrum) would give some sort of an official clarification on this (perhaps putting it in the new upcoming guide v4.0). However, I wouldn't be overly concerned that some DM is going to be a jerk on this one.
Personally, since it is a long-hafted weapon, I'd go with Polearm as default just to be safe. But I can't see any DM out there making a huge deal out of this, as long as it appears you've made a good faith attempt to follow the rules instead of find a loop hole.
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I remember this being discussed here in the PFS section of the forums back in the day regarding the Earthbreaker and the Adventurer's Armory. The description of the Earthbreaker does not indicate that it belongs to any group, while in fact many of the weapons released in the Adventurer's Armory are outlined as belonging to weapon groups. The final answer from Josh Frost (the old head of OP) was that at that time the Earthbreaker does not belong to any weapon group. I think this ruling would apply to the current slate of new weapons until specifically addressed. You may have better results if you ask this question over on the rules forum or if you ask James Jacobs over on his "Ask James Jacobs" thread. Regardless, that was the ruling until Mark/Hyrum override it.
It required a little digging, but here's the thread (link).
Edit: If anybody can find a thread by a developer or an FAQ post which states how new weapons are to be classified, I would be interested in hearing about it. I find the fact that new weapons aren't classified to be a little silly.
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I do not think any GM would give you a hard time about adding a "new" weapon to the list in the CRB for training as long as the weapon made sense.
Most pole arms have similar descriptions to "regular" weapons just with a long haft. That does not mean they should be dual-listed for weapon groups.
Halberd/Glaive both sound like axe weapons and Ranseur sounds like a spear-like weapon, but they are all singularly listed as pole-arms.
A lucern hammer should, therefore, follow the precedent and be a pole-arm. Just because it says "hammer" in it's name, does not imply it should appear on both lists.
Since it appears to be left to GM caveat, in lieu of an updated weapon group list, IMHO, it is a reasonable interpretation. YMMV.
EDIT--It even states right in the weapon description that it is a pole-arm. That should resolve the debate as to which group it belongs to.
Whether of not to allow it to be added to the existing group lists seems to be left to the GM. But I would find it interesting if a GM would be so rules-lawyery that s/he would not allow it.
Come Ultimate Combat you will have a new list of the the fighter weapon groups including all the weapons in the Core Rulebook, the Advanced Player's Guide, and the bevy (and there are many) of new weapons included in Ultimate Combat.
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See, question answered! The answer? Wait until August. ;-)Come Ultimate Combat you will have a new list of the the fighter weapon groups including all the weapons in the Core Rulebook, the Advanced Player's Guide, and the bevy (and there are many) of new weapons included in Ultimate Combat.
Until then, I think I'll play Barbarian instead.
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Most pole arms have similar descriptions to "regular" weapons just with a long haft. That does not mean they should be dual-listed for weapon groups.
Halberd/Glaive both sound like axe weapons and Ranseur sounds like a spear-like weapon, but they are all singularly listed as pole-arms.
A lucern hammer should, therefore, follow the precedent and be a pole-arm. Just because it says "hammer" in it's name, does not imply it should appear on both lists.
Agreed: it's a polearm only based on precedent.
This questions interests me, based on the Throwing Shield from the Adventurer's Armory. I would assume it would be in the Thrown Weapon group.
I would agree that’s a fair assumption. As for the throwing shield being in Ultimate Combat? Reply hazy.