Let me say that I love the concept of a Words of Power or Truespeech type casting system. Tome of Magic was one of my favorite splats thanks to the Truenamer. With that said I'm a bit sad that the Words of Power system is while neat, not what I was hoping for. The system seems to favor prep casters like the wizard in that they can add additional words just like they add new spells. That's great for the Wizard who can learn all 18 of the first level spells and then perfectly concoct spells for his planned day. The spontaneous casters, unless they dump a lot of feats on Extra Word, end up with 5. I was really hoping for a system that let a Spontaneous caster have a similar flexibility to some of the prep casters.
There are 34 word groups with anywhere from 3 to 9(summoning obviously followed by 7 time and 6 fire) words in them. The idea of 6 words for fire bothers me a bit I can almost accept the necessity. Until I think about the target words and then I'm a little sad that I can't just go "Target Word" to dictate what kind of spell either a single target nuke or a aoe and then "Fire" and possibly a meta word.
The Meta word idea is very similar to the Sudden Metamagics from 3.5 and I loved those things. So with a limited number of times per day why do I still need to increase the level of my Wordspell? I enjoyed the explanation of it being more primal than the modern wizards and caster which is why it isn't as "precise", but at the same time having to burn a 6th level slot to cast a 4th level spell is a large penalty in my book as it effectively says "I have to crank more power out than you do to do the same thing".
It's an interesting system and I think it could be a lot of fun in a restricted setting. I guess my few concerns are that the metas tend to boost a spell to be like an already printed spell, but also knock it up to consume a level higher than the one it simulates. Also the fact that there are so many words that a Wizard and other spellbook oriented casters come out on top for flexibility by having more words available to create with. I realize that the system is done and printed, but I was wondering if someone else felt that the Flexibility just isn't quite as flexible as it could have been. Following the table that I just can't find right now dealing with Spell damage by Level, you could have 1 word per element and use that as the damage rule. Maybe that was a 3.5 thing.
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I stopped being interested in words of power the minute Jason said it was still going to be slot-based magic. I wanted to see at least one official option for non-slot casters, since I deeply dislike Vancian casting. Ah, well. Most of the book is still useful to me, and I've bought books with less interesting stuff in them than this one.
I'm a little sad to hear that the system is disappointing. I've been playing my sorcerer from the play test for the past couple of months while waiting for this (Level 4 Red Dragon Bloodline).
Can you tell me how it is different from the play test? I felt like the play test gave sorcerers far more versatility as compared to prepared casters.
It's an interesting system and I think it could be a lot of fun in a restricted setting. I guess my few concerns are that the metas tend to boost a spell to be like an already printed spell, but also knock it up to consume a level higher than the one it simulates.
Could you give an example of this phenomenon? I would have figured that a Word + Meta Word would be equivalent in level/power to a spell + metamagic.
I sort of lost interest during the Words of Power playtest when I saw that they were playtesting a dozen different kinds of blasting spells and not much else. Is there more variety in the final product?
It's an interesting system and I think it could be a lot of fun in a restricted setting. I guess my few concerns are that the metas tend to boost a spell to be like an already printed spell, but also knock it up to consume a level higher than the one it simulates.Could you give an example of this phenomenon? I would have figured that a Word + Meta Word would be equivalent in level/power to a spell + metamagic.
I sort of lost interest during the Words of Power playtest when I saw that they were playtesting a dozen different kinds of blasting spells and not much else. Is there more variety in the final product?
+1
No Target words in the Words of power ?
I think he's complaining about the same issue as in the playtest -- it's clunky to have three different words that are equivalent to Burning Hands, Scorching Ray and Fireball (which you can modify with target words), whereas the elegant solution would be to have a single Fire word modified by target words (e.g. Burning Hands = "Fire" + "Cone", Scorching Ray = "Fire" + "Ray", Fireball = "Fire" + "Ball").
Target words are still there. I am commenting on the relative clunkiness. I can understand having multiple words in regards to illusions. After all we have glamers, figments and phantasms. A more elegant solution is like hogarth mentioned, having 1 word per element and using the Target words to dictate what the spell area was and then using the Damage table that is actually in Ultimate Magic (yes I found it) that gives damage cap guidelines based on spell level page 130 UM in case you wish to see it. As an example though you could use the Cone Target word, the single word for Fire and then using a lvl 2 slot have the damage capped at 5d6 at 5th caster level. I was hoping to see a more cooking esque system. What I mean is have a "root" word like Fire and then modify it based on Target and Meta words, kinda like how you take broth and add things to the soup.
Edit! Examples of burning a higher level slot to equal a common spell or a same level slot for an underpowered version of a common spell:
Fireball 3rd level spell for regular casters, words of power you use Blast target word and the Fire Blast fire word, your range is close and the aoe is 10ft radius. Unless you boost it then the radius increases to 20 ft and the range goes to medium, it's also goes up 2 spell levels.
Mage Armor 1st level spell, words of power uses the word Force Shield. It's restricted to personal so it can only be cast on the caster, it's confusing as it also has selected so I'm unsure if by boosting selected you can choose other targets as well as long as the caster remains one of the targets. Force Shield only lasts 1 minute per level but it's an armor bonus and doesn't stop Magic missiles. No way to increase duration unless you Meta it with Lengthy, then it lasts for 2 minutes per level (does not stack with the extend spell feat).
So it hasn't changed much?
Is it still driven by an abstract cost look-up table?
I'm reserving judgement until I can read them for myself, but that was one thing I really would have liked to see changed.
Fireball 3rd level spell for regular casters, words of power you use Blast target word and the Fire Blast fire word, your range is close and the aoe is 10ft radius. Unless you boost it then the radius increases to 20 ft and the range goes to medium, it's also goes up 2 spell levels.
So a spell that's mechanically identical to Fireball (except for Medium range instead of Long range) requires a 5th level spell slot? That's dumb.
I don't suppose you could list some or all of the new words that weren't in the playtest, could you?
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It was the case during the Playtest if I remember well enough, but a lot of complaints raised about the complexity and book-keeping a system like this would request despite it's possibilites.
Is it still possible to have something like "sickening ray of intensified electricity" or "large cone of death" ? Can't wait to have my hands on this book.
The abstract cost seems to have gone by the wayside. Now there's one table that breaks things down and the level of the word is dictated by the level of the Effect word, or you know higher if a meta boosts it up. You can have more than 1 effect word in a word spell and the level of the slot used dictates the combo. For example a 5th level slot can use 1 5th level word, or a 3/3 4/2 combo so two 3rd levels or a 4th and 2nd, or it could use three 2nd level words 2/2/2 or a 3/1/1 split. I assume those splits follow the Meta word rules too so you can use metas but they have to obey the spell level limiter.
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I see, thanks a lot. :)
Just a last question on the topic : is the DD to save against multiple effects depending on the final spell level slot, or on the level of each word used ? I guess this is the first one to quicken the game (can't imagine 3 or 4 saving throws per spell...), but since the words used are at lower level, they also have less awesome effects ; so you could poke a lot with small effects or just smash faces like crazy.
You use the Highest level word, the example they use is in a 5th level slot and it's a 2nd level word with a ref save and a 4th with a will save you use the 4th level's will save. If they make it you follow the rules for the individual words, if they fail they suffer the effect of both words. However since it's still a 5th level slot the save dc is a 15+ caster attribute. Also for damage you can't exceed caster level in damage dice. So no stacking like Burning Flash (caps at 5d4) level 1 word 3 times in a 4th level slot to do 15d4 worth of damage.
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O-kkk... so, the kind of save is determined by the higher word level, and the DC by the global spell-slot level.
If max damage is determined by full caster level, I guess there is no meta word for Intensified spell, but maybe something like Empower word. Well, I'll see this when the book is available. Thanks again ! :)
Ok so I'm confused a 5th level spell used a level 4 word and a level 2 word....4+2=6.....yep I'm confused.
So is it not possible to redesign the system, given the basic elements? Mind you, I'm asking out of theory, since I don't have the pdf yet.
As described above:
6 words for type (force, sonic beyond the standard 4 elements)
• 2 words for positive/negative(?)
6 words for target (target, line, cone, area, self, mass)
?? words for metamagic
? words for duration
9 words for summoning (by level)
• 3 words for summoning (by alignment?)
• 2 words for the law/chaos axis
I miss anything?
edit: thanks for the pointer, R.J.
Now a points-cost system for structure would be a bit trickier.
Start with a base of 1 point for "self" effects, 2 points for elemental effects and go from there.
I'm thinking that the closer the effect is, the less points it'll cost, since it is closer to the source of the manifestation (summons will eat points in duration, though) and spell effects will cost points in the squares they will affect.
Anyone following? I'm not great at point assignment, so could use some help with the numbers.
There are 9 summoning words corresponding to the summon monster 9 levels which is fine to me, there are the Healing and Wounding name families.
Let me say that I love the concept of a Words of Power or Truespeech type casting system. Tome of Magic was one of my favorite splats thanks to the Truenamer. With that said I'm a bit sad that the Words of Power system is while neat, not what I was hoping for. The system seems to favor prep casters like the wizard in that they can add additional words just like they add new spells. That's great for the Wizard who can learn all 18 of the first level spells and then perfectly concoct spells for his planned day. The spontaneous casters, unless they dump a lot of feats on Extra Word, end up with 5. I was really hoping for a system that let a Spontaneous caster have a similar flexibility to some of the prep casters.
There are 34 word groups with anywhere from 3 to 9(summoning obviously followed by 7 time and 6 fire) words in them. The idea of 6 words for fire bothers me a bit I can almost accept the necessity. Until I think about the target words and then I'm a little sad that I can't just go "Target Word" to dictate what kind of spell either a single target nuke or a aoe and then "Fire" and possibly a meta word.
The Meta word idea is very similar to the Sudden Metamagics from 3.5 and I loved those things. So with a limited number of times per day why do I still need to increase the level of my Wordspell? I enjoyed the explanation of it being more primal than the modern wizards and caster which is why it isn't as "precise", but at the same time having to burn a 6th level slot to cast a 4th level spell is a large penalty in my book as it effectively says "I have to crank more power out than you do to do the same thing".
It's an interesting system and I think it could be a lot of fun in a restricted setting. I guess my few concerns are that the metas tend to boost a spell to be like an already printed spell, but also knock it up to consume a level higher than the one it simulates. Also the fact that there are so many words that a Wizard and other spellbook oriented casters come out on top for...
Actually, I think that as far as offense goes, WoP tends to vastly favor the spontaneous caster because they know all the target words and can pick them on the fly.
For example, while playing Hook Mountain Massacre, the playtest WoP sorcerer was the MVP because he turned out to need a 60-foot line attack spell three times, so he just cast them. And he needed to blast in a burst a few times, and he had that too. He also needed a cone when he was backed up in a corner, and he had it. All with his favorable ice spells (he is a Boreal Sorcerer and has incredible DCs for ice spells). In order to do this with a regular sorcerer, he would have needed to take spells known in both Lightning Bolt and Fireball in order to have both shapes, he would not have possibly had a useful cone spell yet, and he'd need a feat to switch to cold (raising the spell level, so he couldn't cast it yet). It's very unlikely that a wizard would have prepared exactly the right number of shapes for the situation.
By giving all the shapes for free, the sorcerer is at a huge advantage over the wizard with WoP, at least from our playtest. It opens up the ability to be a ridiculous blaster while spending very few words known on evocation and thus having plenty of utility words. Of course, if you were only going to summon or buff anyway, you didn't need all those target words, so the sorcerer does lose its advantage there.
Do they still have the Word Burning Feat or is that obsolete given the lack of points?
Do they still have the Word Burning Feat or is that obsolete given the lack of points?
It no longer exists. The replacement for "a few spells per day that are more powerful than the rest" is done with meta words, which often don't cost you anything other than the fact that you can use few meta words per day (half your level, but +3 with a feat that I think most every wordcaster will take).
I just want to know how Words of Power (WoP) work now so I can use them with my WoP Vanguard (SGG).
Do they still have the Word Burning Feat or is that obsolete given the lack of points?It no longer exists. The replacement for "a few spells per day that are more powerful than the rest" is done with meta words, which often don't cost you anything other than the fact that you can use few meta words per day (half your level, but +3 with a feat that I think most every wordcaster will take).
Can you give me the prereqs and name of the feat?
The Sorcerer that I am running under the playtest will likely be turning 5th Level before I can get the PDF. I want to see if I should leave that slot open or if I should consider something else.
Thanks.
Do they still have the Word Burning Feat or is that obsolete given the lack of points?It no longer exists. The replacement for "a few spells per day that are more powerful than the rest" is done with meta words, which often don't cost you anything other than the fact that you can use few meta words per day (half your level, but +3 with a feat that I think most every wordcaster will take).Can you give me the prereqs and name of the feat?
The Sorcerer that I am running under the playtest will likely be turning 5th Level before I can get the PDF. I want to see if I should leave that slot open or if I should consider something else.
Thanks.
It's immediately takeable. Here--it's pretty simple, and any paraphrase would just give it away anyway. See below:
You are skilled at using meta words to enhance your
wordcasting ability.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast wordspells.
Benefit: You can use meta words three additional times
per day. In addition, select one additional meta word and
add it to your spellbook, familiar, or list of words known.
Do they still have the Word Burning Feat or is that obsolete given the lack of points?It no longer exists. The replacement for "a few spells per day that are more powerful than the rest" is done with meta words, which often don't cost you anything other than the fact that you can use few meta words per day (half your level, but +3 with a feat that I think most every wordcaster will take).Can you give me the prereqs and name of the feat?
The Sorcerer that I am running under the playtest will likely be turning 5th Level before I can get the PDF. I want to see if I should leave that slot open or if I should consider something else.
Thanks.
It's immediately takeable. Here--it's pretty simple, and any paraphrase would just give it away anyway. See below:
** spoiler omitted **
Thank you. Anything else you feel like sharing about the change in the system? I am eager looking forward to seeing how this fleshed out.
Thank you. Anything else you feel like sharing about the change in the system? I am eager looking forward to seeing how this fleshed out.Do they still have the Word Burning Feat or is that obsolete given the lack of points?It no longer exists. The replacement for "a few spells per day that are more powerful than the rest" is done with meta words, which often don't cost you anything other than the fact that you can use few meta words per day (half your level, but +3 with a feat that I think most every wordcaster will take).Can you give me the prereqs and name of the feat?
The Sorcerer that I am running under the playtest will likely be turning 5th Level before I can get the PDF. I want to see if I should leave that slot open or if I should consider something else.
Thanks.
It's immediately takeable. Here--it's pretty simple, and any paraphrase would just give it away anyway. See below:
** spoiler omitted **
Basically, the biggest change is that the Mass target word is more expensive (as it should be--it was way too cheap before). The standardized system for effect words makes it a little easier to throw in simple shapes, but without the points, you can no longer have that little bit of extra room to throw in a cantrip without raising the spell's level--now even if you're just adding a cantrip, the spell is a full level higher. If you weren't already doing things like adding the ice cantrip to the Torture spell to make it count as an [ice] spell to trigger Boreal sorcerer benefits or things like that, you probably won't be affected much, honestly, other than the Mass price increase and the switch from word burning to (usually) free meta words. The most extravagant meta words still raise the level though.
Basically, the biggest change is that the Mass target word is more expensive (as it should be--it was way too cheap before). The standardized system for effect words makes it a little easier to throw in simple shapes, but without the points, you can no longer have that little bit of extra room to throw in a cantrip without raising the spell's level--now even if you're just adding a cantrip, the spell is a full level higher. If you weren't already doing things like adding the ice cantrip to the Torture spell to make it count as an [ice] spell to trigger Boreal sorcerer benefits or things like that, you probably won't be affected much, honestly, other than the Mass price increase and the switch from word burning to (usually) free meta words. The most extravagant meta words still raise the level though.Thank you. Anything else you feel like sharing about the change in the system? I am eager looking forward to seeing how this fleshed out.Do they still have the Word Burning Feat or is that obsolete given the lack of points?It no longer exists. The replacement for "a few spells per day that are more powerful than the rest" is done with meta words, which often don't cost you anything other than the fact that you can use few meta words per day (half your level, but +3 with a feat that I think most every wordcaster will take).Can you give me the prereqs and name of the feat?
The Sorcerer that I am running under the playtest will likely be turning 5th Level before I can get the PDF. I want to see if I should leave that slot open or if I should consider something else.
Thanks.
It's immediately takeable. Here--it's pretty simple, and any paraphrase would just give it away anyway. See below:
** spoiler omitted **
So what level is mass now? It was my favorite target word. Also still confused on how the effect words work.
So what level is mass now? It was my favorite target word. Also still confused on how the effect...Basically, the biggest change is that the Mass target word is more expensive (as it should be--it was way too cheap before). The standardized system for effect words makes it a little easier to throw in simple shapes, but without the points, you can no longer have that little bit of extra room to throw in a cantrip without raising the spell's level--now even if you're just adding a cantrip, the spell is a full level higher. If you weren't already doing things like adding the ice cantrip to the Torture spell to make it count as an [ice] spell to trigger Boreal sorcerer benefits or things like that, you probably won't be affected much, honestly, other than the Mass price increase and the switch from word burning to (usually) free meta words. The most extravagant meta words still raise the level though.Thank you. Anything else you feel like sharing about the change in the system? I am eager looking forward to seeing how this fleshed out.Do they still have the Word Burning Feat or is that obsolete given the lack of points?It no longer exists. The replacement for "a few spells per day that are more powerful than the rest" is done with meta words, which often don't cost you anything other than the fact that you can use few meta words per day (half your level, but +3 with a feat that I think most every wordcaster will take).Can you give me the prereqs and name of the feat?
The Sorcerer that I am running under the playtest will likely be turning 5th Level before I can get the PDF. I want to see if I should leave that slot open or if I should consider something else.
Thanks.
It's immediately takeable. Here--it's pretty simple, and any paraphrase would just give it away anyway. See below:
** spoiler omitted **
Mass is now the much-more-balanced (though probably a bit too expensive now, but better that than being way too cheap) cost of 3 levels, plus it costs one of your metaword uses for the day. I probably would have done 2, myself. So if you have a level 3 word (like the fire word of 10d6 damage) and make it Mass, it's a level 6 spell.
It is certainly not all doom and Gloom. I see some upper leveled versions of Mage Armor, for instance, that last 10 min/level and can get you up to +11 Armor bonus. Eldritch Knights take notice.
Honestly I foresee the words of power being used to make custom standard spells. IE: As a tool for when someone wants to make a spell that doesn't exist in the book using research. It's an easy way to balance out the spell without a lot of haggling or rules lawyering. Just let the player pick out the words to describe what he wants, put them together, and then see what the level is. Boom, he has his spell.
I'll probably also use it for introducing some limited arcane healing into my games. I like the idea of arcane magic being able to knit wounds, but doing so in such a way as to make it different from divine healing (probably up the slot level, and muck around with the dice).
Honestly I foresee the words of power being used to make custom standard spells. IE: As a tool for when someone wants to make a spell that doesn't exist in the book using research. It's an easy way to balance out the spell without a lot of haggling or rules lawyering. Just let the player pick out the words to describe what he wants, put them together, and then see what the level is. Boom, he has his spell.
I'll probably also use it for introducing some limited arcane healing into my games. I like the idea of arcane magic being able to knit wounds, but doing so in such a way as to make it different from divine healing (probably up the slot level, and muck around with the dice).
+1
I'll be researching those improved mage armor word spells with my Eldritch Archer now that there is a baseline balance-wise. I also hear the chapter on designing magic spells and such is reaaaaallly cool and I'm looking forward to reading it when I can get the pdf.
It is certainly not all doom and Gloom. I see some upper leveled versions of Mage Armor, for instance, that last 10 min/level and can get you up to +11 Armor bonus. Eldritch Knights take notice.
That one was in the playtest too. It was always a stand-out for being amazing among the playtest words.
From the new ones, there's the Word version of Sending, which lasts for an unlimited amount of words, takes only a standard action to cast, and can even be used to let two people other than the caster communicate if one is near the caster. Also, the word for Haste is only 2nd-level and, while single-target, is ridiculously powerful, arguably better than a single-target version of Haste in many situations (gives an extra move action per round, rather than any of the usual Haste benefits). Other than that, the words are usually a bit weaker than the nearest spell.
Oh, I guess there's also a niche use of the fact that the Enervation word makes them become a Ghost if they die rather than a Wight. If you have the ability to Command Undead, Ghosts are highly favorable because they keep all the abilities of the original character and can be potentially unkillable if they are high enough level and you engineer a good enough unfinished business. But that's a roleplay-based combo far beyond the bounds of the single spell.
Honestly I foresee the words of power being used to make custom standard spells. IE: As a tool for when someone wants to make a spell that doesn't exist in the book using research. It's an easy way to balance out the spell without a lot of haggling or rules lawyering. Just let the player pick out the words to describe what he wants, put them together, and then see what the level is. Boom, he has his spell.
I'll probably also use it for introducing some limited arcane healing into my games. I like the idea of arcane magic being able to knit wounds, but doing so in such a way as to make it different from divine healing (probably up the slot level, and muck around with the dice).
I'd be tempted not to let a normal caster research normal spell versions of those few standouts I mentioned in my above post merely because the wordcaster loses out to the normal caster when comparing similar spells in every other way that I feel they should have a few things they can do better than the normal caster (and there are so very few). But yeah, anything else, if a player put together something with words and wants to research that as a spell, I'd be game.
I'd be tempted not to let a normal caster research normal spell versions of those few standouts I mentioned in my above post merely because the wordcaster loses out to the normal caster when comparing similar spells in every other way that I feel they should have a few things they can do better than the normal caster (and there are so very few). But yeah, anything else, if a player put together something with words and wants to research that as a spell, I'd be game.
You misunderstand. I mean I doubt words of power will be in my game as it is. I think the whole section of the book will just become a resource for researching spells.
Just so I understand.
There are no more points. Every Target Word, Effect Word, and Meta Word still have a level value and you just add all their level values up to determine the level of the slot used?
Example:
Small Line (Level 1) and Burning Flash (Level 1) would require a 2nd level spell slot to cast?
Does that mean that the only spells that can be cast at 1st level are rays or touch spells?
Also, did they keep the Versatile Word Caster feat? I used that to fill some gaps in my character.
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Small Line (Level 1) and Burning Flash (Level 1) would require a 2nd level spell slot to cast?
Nope, seems more complicated than this. If R.J made no mistake, it looks like a spell slot allows for precise combinations not totally depending from the equation spell level A + spell level B = spell level A+B.
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For example a 5th level slot can use 1 5th level word, or a 3/3 4/2 combo so two 3rd levels or a 4th and 2nd, or it could use three 2nd level words 2/2/2 or a 3/1/1 split
Small Line (Level 1) and Burning Flash (Level 1) would require a 2nd level spell slot to cast?Nope, seems more complicated than this. If R.J made no mistake, it looks like a spell slot allows for precise combinations not totally depending from the equation spell level A + spell level B = spell level A+B.
->
For example a 5th level slot can use 1 5th level word, or a 3/3 4/2 combo so two 3rd levels or a 4th and 2nd, or it could use three 2nd level words 2/2/2 or a 3/1/1 split
He mentioned 1 5th level word being a 5th level slot and he did not mention any combos with 4 words.
I wonder if the Target Words do not enter the calculation.
Mass is now the much-more-balanced (though probably a bit too expensive now, but better that than being way too cheap) cost of 3 levels, plus it costs one of your metaword uses for the day. I probably would have done 2 , myself. So if you have a level 3 word (like the fire word of 10 d6 damage) and make it Mass, it's a level 6 spell.
Well that's slightly depressing for my character. :/ He can't even use Mass any more since he can only cast up to level three spells.
The chart only breaks it down to a 3 way split in spell level. A wordspell can only have 1 target word, most are level 0 but Burst, Line, and Barrier are not. Also boosting a target word can adjust the level of the spell. However it seems like the Target word isn't part of the table to determine the level of the spell. My understanding is that if you use a Cantrip and use the Line target word you burn a 1st level spell. For the most part though it seems the level is set by the Effect words unless something like a Target or Meta adjust it higher.
So...how would I go about creating something like Create Demiplane with the Words of Power system?
Frankly I can't see how you could, there's no Creation family of words. So I guess that also gets rid of minor creation stuff as well. I think I've come up with a way to utilize and potentially enjoy the new system though. If I stop looking at it as a standalone set up (except for npc usage) and instead as an additional resource it could be quite intriguing.
For instance using a regular caster taking the Experimental Caster feat to gain the Target words, one Effect word, and one Meta word. Thereafter allow said caster to add spells OR words to their spells known or spellbook. It gives them the flexibility to use the Words of Power when they think it could be beneficial, while maintaining the access to spells that you just can't hope to recreate with Words.
The chart only breaks it down to a 3 way split in spell level. A wordspell can only have 1 target word, most are level 0 but Burst, Line, and Barrier are not. Also boosting a target word can adjust the level of the spell. However it seems like the Target word isn't part of the table to determine the level of the spell. My understanding is that if you use a Cantrip and use the Line target word you burn a 1st level spell. For the most part though it seems the level is set by the Effect words unless something like a Target or Meta adjust it higher.
I don't think that's it. I think that level 1 target words just mean you can't use them for cantrips (the word must be at least level 1), but I don't think the meta words or target words actually cost you anything at all unless they are boosted. Granted, it's confusing, and I could be wrong.
I don't think that's it. I think that level 1 target words just mean you can't use them for cantrips (the word must be at least level 1), but I don't think the meta words or target words actually cost you anything at all unless they are boosted. Granted, it's confusing, and I could be wrong.
One of their examples is Fire Blast (a level 3 effect word) with the Burst target word, and the result is still a 3rd level spell. So it sounds like you're right; only the effect words and boosts affect the spell's level.
Burst is a level 1 word so it doesn't adjust anything. The way I was reading it was if you used a Target word that had a level higher than the Effect word you used the Target's level to dictate the minimum slot.
Burst is a level 1 word so it doesn't adjust anything. The way I was reading it was if you used a Target word that had a level higher than the Effect word you used the Target's level to dictate the minimum slot.
Actually, I agree with you and disagree with Rogue Eidolon: you can create a Line (or Burst or whatever) out of a 0 level spell, but it will raise the level.
Somehow I read that post kind of backwards. :-)
Frankly I can't see how you could, there's no Creation family of words. So I guess that also gets rid of minor creation stuff as well. I think I've come up with a way to utilize and potentially enjoy the new system though. If I stop looking at it as a standalone set up (except for npc usage) and instead as an additional resource it could be quite intriguing.
That's what I thought as well. Using the WoP to create unique spells for characters and such. Thanks for the reply, just wanted to make sure I wasn't over-looking anything.
Burst is a level 1 word so it doesn't adjust anything. The way I was reading it was if you used a Target word that had a level higher than the Effect word you used the Target's level to dictate the minimum slot.Actually, I agree with you and disagree with Rogue Eidolon: you can create a Line (or Burst or whatever) out of a 0 level spell, but it will raise the level.
Somehow I read that post kind of backwards. :-)
Looks like I did too. Granted, you probably wouldn't want to put a cantrip in a line when you can put a 1st-level spell in a line for the same price.