| Douglas Muir 406 |
Been trying to build a RMA as a party antagonist, and I'm choking a little.
The RMA doesn't have a death strike and doesn't have poison use. What it does have is good TWF and a grab bag of odd abilities -- prayer attack, red mist, summoning mantises, and so forth.
My PCs are level 5 APL. In theory, a Ftr 5/RMA 3 should present a solid CR 7 challenge. In practice, my PCs would probably rip him apart in a round or two.
ISTM that these guys are designed to attack in packs? Multiple Prayer Attacks, one guy does the Red Mist while the others move, yadda yadda. I have the impression that 4 RMAs of level N would in practice be a lot more alarming than a single RMA of level N+4... is this right?
Who's had much experience with these guys, and what's the best way to use them at middle levels?
Doug M.
| wraithstrike |
Multiple creatures are almost always stronger than a single creature unless N is to low. If you present him as a straight fight my money is on the PC's, but they are good ambushers. The PC's would still win I think, but not before one of them is severely injured or dead. They are better in packs. I would use two CR 5's.
Why not use Ranger/RMA. The skills bonuses match up with RMA, and the favored enemy bonus should give you more damage. You also get the extra TWF feats for free. If you use the guide archetype you don't even have to pick a favored enemy type. If they attack in their favored terrain they get bonuses to stealth IIRC, among other things.
| Sylvanite |
The main problem is that most assassins, not just RMA, are designed to take out individuals who aren't even really ready for them. Not a whole group of uber-prepared adventurers.
That said, an RMA backed by a crowd controlling wizard would be pretty interesting. Also, if an RMA had to kill a whole group of PCs, my money would be on him using subterfuge to convince local authorities/thieves' guild/mob presence that the PCs need to be dealt with....and then trying to pick off individual PCs in the ensuing confrontations.
If an RMA just straight up appears out of nowhere and then tries to fight a group of PCs, he's doing his job wrong.
| martinaj |
I think a pack of RMAs is a great way to create real fear in the PCs. Their big advantage is that they can initiate a prayer attack in the middle of combat. Now if they're alone, this can be easily disrupted, but toss 3 or 4 lower level RMAs against the party and have them maneuver the PCs around the battlefield until one is isolated. Have one of the RMAs start a prayer attack against that PCs while his buddies do their utmost to keep the rest of the party occupied. I think the suspense of knowing you've got 3 rounds to reach your fellow PC before he snuffs it would make for a pretty memorable encounter.
| Sylvanite |
I think a pack of RMAs is a great way to create real fear in the PCs. Their big advantage is that they can initiate a prayer attack in the middle of combat. Now if they're alone, this can be easily disrupted, but toss 3 or 4 lower level RMAs against the party and have them maneuver the PCs around the battlefield until one is isolated. Have one of the RMAs start a prayer attack against that PCs while his buddies do their utmost to keep the rest of the party occupied. I think the suspense of knowing you've got 3 rounds to reach your fellow PC before he snuffs it would make for a pretty memorable encounter.
Though the PCs would really not have any knowledge of the three rounds unless they made some pretty nifty Knowledge checks or had seen it before. At the table itself...definitely some metagame tension.
| Mauril |
I have actually just been working on building an RMA to throw against my players as well, and I found that Fighter is about the most powerful entrance. I know, weird, right? The couple extra d6s of sneak attack for going in with Rogue might be more significant at low levels (my RMA is level 15) than at high, but the increased chance to hit seems much more important.
I opted to dual-wield the sawtooth sabres (since they count as light weapons for TWF with the feat) and took just enough STR to give a little bonus to damage and focused on boosting DEX and CHA. My plan is to keep him greater invis'd to stack those sneak attacks on as much as possible. I also equiped him with bane weapons appropriate to the party. I mean, what assassin doesn't know his targets? The bane weapons obviate the need for the favored enemy of the ranger and the bonus feats for being fighter wash with the bonus feats from ranger.
Mind you, he won't be alone. I agree with the above posters, solo baddies are almost always weaker than an equivalent CR of lower level baddies. Action economy is the name of the game. You make these guys dangerous by giving them allies. Even a pack of CR 1 goblins provide flanking for sneak attacks.
| Douglas Muir 406 |
have them maneuver the PCs around the battlefield until one is isolated. Have one of the RMAs start a prayer attack against that PCs while his buddies do their utmost to keep the rest of the party occupied.
The Prayer Attack is fun and all, but it has a couple of problems. The DC is 10 + RMA level + Cha mod +2 if using two sawtooth sabers, which presumably they always will be. So, if I'm throwing an RMA/2 or 3 at my PCs, the save DC will be around 14-16. Besides the barbarian (+1), all my PCs have Will saves in the range of +4 to +9. So the odds of picking off any single PC are not great. Combine that with the "shake your friend out of Fascination as a standard action" thing, and the RMA has a problem: if she tries to zap the whole party, half of them will save, and if she tries to get one of them alone, good chance that one will save (unless it's the barb, and even he's going to have a shot at it.)
Now, if you can zap the party with multiple Prayer Attacks, then yeah, things get ugly. But you'd need two or more RMA / 2s for that. The feeblest RMA you can make starts with 5 levels of NPC (Warrior or Aristocrat, presumably), so two of these guys would be CR 7.
...that would actually fit in terms of threat. It'd be a pure "save or suck" type situation: make two CR 14 Will saves back to back. The odds of doing this would range from 16% (for the barb) to just over 50% (for the cleric). You'd likely end with half the party down in the first round, and maybe two PCs left to fend off the mantises.
But "save or suck" is not much fun. Still thinking about this.
Doug M.
Okugi
|
I just played a great encounter from Curse of The Crimson Throne.
** spoiler omitted **
That was a great fight.
| wraithstrike |
I have actually just been working on building an RMA to throw against my players as well, and I found that Fighter is about the most powerful entrance. I know, weird, right? The couple extra d6s of sneak attack for going in with Rogue might be more significant at low levels (my RMA is level 15) than at high, but the increased chance to hit seems much more important.
I opted to dual-wield the sawtooth sabres (since they count as light weapons for TWF with the feat) and took just enough STR to give a little bonus to damage and focused on boosting DEX and CHA. My plan is to keep him greater invis'd to stack those sneak attacks on as much as possible. I also equiped him with bane weapons appropriate to the party. I mean, what assassin doesn't know his targets? The bane weapons obviate the need for the favored enemy of the ranger and the bonus feats for being fighter wash with the bonus feats from ranger.
Mind you, he won't be alone. I agree with the above posters, solo baddies are almost always weaker than an equivalent CR of lower level baddies. Action economy is the name of the game. You make these guys dangerous by giving them allies. Even a pack of CR 1 goblins provide flanking for sneak attacks.
The issue with bane weapons and targets change. From an immersion point of view you can't get magic weapons whenever you need them to match a specific creature. Strength is also better than dex for damage. A ranger focusing on a target with the guide variant will out damage a fighter most of the time. The ranger also gets more skills.
I would also suggest having the assassins run away if they start to get their butts kicked, and having a few low CR cronies if possible. I know they will die quickly, but it is free flanking, unless you have a summoning caster.