First off I love what has been done thus far with Pathfdiner, with a few exceptions, however am I the only one here who really wishes pathfinder would finally sit down and create an arcane caster with full base attack bonus? Even Jason Bulmahn has said in an interview it could be done, they just wouldn't get much else, but you know what, I am okay with that. More than anything else, I am just getting the feeling that we are getting swamped with these intermediate combat arcane casters. We have the Arcane Dualist, Magus, and soon the Battle Bard.
Am I alone here?
P.S. The idea was full caster levels, but only 4th or 5th level spells.
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Do you mean something similar to the 3.5 Hexblade? Similar spell set up to a paladin or ranger? or are you looking for something with superior spell casting and less class abilities?
I can't see it happening for a long time as the classes have already been set for the two ultimate guides, but never say never, especially if the designer has deemed it possible...
First off I love what has been done thus far with Pathfdiner, with a few exceptions, however am I the only one here who really wishes pathfinder would finally sit down and create an arcane caster with full base attack bonus? Even Jason Bulmahn has said in an interview it could be done, they just wouldn't get much else, but you know what, I am okay with that. More than anything else, I am just getting the feeling that we are getting swamped with these intermediate combat arcane casters. We have the Arcane Dualist, Magus, and soon the Battle Bard.
Am I alone here?
I guess doing a level 4 arcane caster could work. We have level 4 divine casters such as the ranger and paladin.
By level 4 I mean they start casting at level 4. I would have expect such a class to debut in Ultimate Combat though.Maybe they will make an archtype that has a fighter give up some of its features for spells.
Aw man, this last week has been Nostalgia Week on the Paizo boards it seems. :)In before "Duskblades are broken".
In before "Duskblades are weak and not broken."
Here's something I haven't seen: an arcane caster with full access to spells from 0 to 9 with a medium BAB.
I mean, is it REALLY that hard to get the cleric equivalent of a sorcerer/wizard ? I could understand if these classes got abilities like 3 times the numbers of spells per days or the ability to select 1 spell per level to be at-will, or anything else magic-related that would disuate players to use normal attacks, but now, it's basically a battery waiting to run out.
Like a sorcerer/wizard with a medium BAB would be broken anyway...
Here's something I haven't seen: an arcane caster with full access to spells from 0 to 9 with a medium BAB.
Battle Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana. It had to give up one spell known and one spell it could cast per level. Of course with the APG favored class option to get an extra spell every time you level that would be canceled out if you went human.
Do you mean something similar to the 3.5 Hexblade? Similar spell set up to a paladin or ranger? or are you looking for something with superior spell casting and less class abilities?
I can't see it happening for a long time as the classes have already been set for the two ultimate guides, but never say never, especially if the designer has deemed it possible...
Nah, full casting, but not full 9 levels of casting with full base attack.
I don't care what has been done before. This would be a competently new class with Paizo's balancing.
Here's something I haven't seen: an arcane caster with full access to spells from 0 to 9 with a medium BAB.
I mean, is it REALLY that hard to get the cleric equivalent of a sorcerer/wizard ? I could understand if these classes got abilities like 3 times the numbers of spells per days or the ability to select 1 spell per level to be at-will, or anything else magic-related that would disuate players to use normal attacks, but now, it's basically a battery waiting to run out.
Like a sorcerer/wizard with a medium BAB would be broken anyway...
This is the exact opposite of what I am looking for.
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There are a couple of options nowadays, actually, if you're willing to do things flavorfully.
1) Sacred Servant Paladin, choose an elemental domain. This will often get you plenty of spells associated with Arcane Casters, which could be really nice.
2) Anti-Paladin. Just say you're (insert non-evil alignment here) and that your damage is just "magic damage" that can't harm undead. Plus, you get a Fiendish monster to follow you around.
In before "Duskblades are weak and not broken."Aw man, this last week has been Nostalgia Week on the Paizo boards it seems. :)In before "Duskblades are broken".
In before "With everyone saying it is week or it is powerful, that usually means it is balanced."
It'd need a gimmick to differentiate it from the Magus.
A fighting class with arcane powers that DIDN'T cast spells would be a pretty cool concept.
Well take a ranger, swap the spell list out and done. Really though every time this comes up folks always want better casting then paladin/ranger.
I think this could be covered by archetypes myself.
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The Hexblade is a good place to start.
Here's what I did to it. The Hexblade arcana is a bit much, so I'm open to suggestions.
EDIT: Actually, I think I might work on some Meta-Hex abilities for the Hexblade Arcana instead. I'll post an update in a bit.
HEXBLADE
BAB: +1
Good Saves: Will
Hit Dice: 1d10
Class Skills: Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Fly, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (planes), Knowledge (religion), Linguistics, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Swim, Use Magic Device.
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier
Hexblades are proficient in all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Arcane Pool, Hex, Hexblade’s Curse
2. Arcane Grace, Bonus Feat, Hex
3. Hexblade Arcana, Stalwart
4. Hex, Spells
5. Arcane Bond (Familiar or Weapon)
6. Bonus Feat, Hex
7. Hexblade Arcana, Improved Hexblade’s Curse
8. Hex
9. Aura of Unluck (20%)
10. Bonus Feat, Hex, Major Hex
11. Hexblade Arcana
12. Hex
13. Greater Hexblade’s Curse
14. Bonus Feat, Hex
15. Hexblade Arcana
16. Hex
17. Greater Aura of Unluck (50%)
18. Bonus Feat, Hex, Grand Hex
19. Hexblade Arcana, Dire Hexblade’s Curse
20. Free Magic, Hex
Arcane Pool (Su): The Hexblade has a pool of arcane points equal to ½ his Hexblade level + his Charisma bonus (minimum 1). The Hexblade spends points from this pool to activate his Hexblade Curse, Hexblade Arcana, and Aura of Unluck class abilities.
Hex (Su): As the witch ability of the same name. Hexblade levels and witch levels stack for the purposes of determining what level Hex the character can select and for the purposes of determining the Save DC of the character’s Hexes.
Hexblade’s Curse (Su): As a swift action, the Hexblade can target a creature he has line of effect to and line of sight to with his Hexblade’s Curse. The targeted creature must make a Will Save with a DC of 10 + ½ the Hexblade’s class level + the Hexblade’s Charisma modifier or take a -2 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks for a number of rounds equal to ½ the Hexblade’s class level + his Charisma modifier. If the Will Save is successful, the targeted creature suffers the penalty for only 1 round. At 7th level, the penalty increases to -4. At 13th level, the penalty increases to -6. At 19th level, the penalty increases to -8.
Arcane Grace (Su): At 2nd level, as long as the Hexblade has at least 1 point in his Arcane Pool, he adds his Charisma bonus to his saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural effects.
Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the Hexblade may select a feat from the following list. He must meet all requirements of the selected feat. His Hexblade levels stack with Fighter levels for the purposes of meeting the requirements of a selected feat.
Arcane Blast, Arcane Shield, Arcane Strike, Dazzling Display, Disrupting Shot, Disruptive, Enforcer, Eschew Materials, Expanded Arcana, Extra Hex, Great Fortitude, Greater Spell Focus, Greater Spell Penetration, Heavy Armor, Improved Familiar, Improved Great Fortitude, Improved Iron Will, Improved Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Magical Aptitude, Minor Spell Expertise, Shatter Defenses, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Spellbreaker, Teleport Tactician, Weapon Focus.
Hexblade Arcana (Su): At 3rd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the Hexblade selects a Hexblade Arcana power. As an immediate action, the Hexblade can spend 1 point from his Arcane Pool and activate one of his selected Hexblade Arcana powers.
Arcane Barrier: The Hexblade summons an immovable 5 foot by 5 foot wall of force adjacent to himself that has a duration of 1 round. This grants the Hexblade improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 to Reflex Saves, and Improved Evasion) against attacks from the other side of the barrier. The Hexblade can choose to have an arrow slit in the barrier he summons.
Arcane Burst: The Hexblade causes 2 points of damage per level to all adjacent creatures. They are allowed a Reflex saving throw with a DC of 10 + ½ the Hexblade’s level + the Hexblade’s Charisma modifier for half damage.
Arcane Celerity: The Hexblade gains a +60 enhancement bonus to his speed for 1 round.
Arcane Cloud: The Hexblade fills his space and all adjacent squares with a thick mist. Adjacent opponents have a 20% chance to miss the hexblade; all others have a 50% chance to miss the hexblade.
Arcane Combat: For 1 round, the Hexblade resolves all melee attacks as if they were melee touch attacks.
Arcane Durability: The Hexblade gains DR/- equal to his level for 1 round.
Arcane Endurance: The Hexblade gains 5 temporary hit points per level for 1 round.
Arcane Effort: The Hexblade adds half his level to Strength checks for 1 round.
Arcane Flight: The Hexblade gains a flight speed of 60 feet, with perfect maneuverability, for 1 round.
Arcane Haste: The Hexblade is hasted for 1 round.
Arcane Health: The Hexblade heals 1 hit point per level.
Arcane Maneuvers: The Hexblade adds his Charisma modifier to his CMB and CMD for 1 round.
Arcane Penetration: The Hexblade may re-roll a caster level check to overcome spell resistance, adding his Charisma bonus to the caster level check.
Arcane Purity: The Hexblade gains a luck bonus on all Saving Throws for 1 round equal to 1/3 his level.
Arcane Reach: The Hexblade’s reach increases by 5 feet for 1 round.
Arcane Resistance: The Hexblade chooses one of the following energy types: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. The Hexblade gains energy resistance 5, +5 at 4th level and every 4 levels, against the selected energy type for 1 round.
Arcane Retribution: For a number of rounds equal to ½ the Hexblade’s level, any creature that strikes the Hexblade with a natural attack, unarmed strike, or non-reach weapon takes an amount of damage equal to the Hexblade’s level.
Arcane Step: The Hexblade teleports 30 feet.
Arcane Tactics: The Hexblade selects a Teamwork Feat and can use it for 1 round.
Arcane Vengeance: For a number of rounds equal to half his level, any manufactured weapon that strikes the Hexblade takes damage equal to his level + his Charisma modifier; the Hexblade ignores an amount of hardness equal to half his level. If this damage destroys the weapon, the Hexblade takes no damage from the attack.
Arcane Vision: The Hexblade gains darkvision 60 feet and see invisibility for 1 round.
Arcane Vitality: The Hexblade reduces the amount of ability damage, ability drain, and negative levels he suffers by an amount equal to half his level for 1 round.
Stalwart (Ex): At 3rd level, the Hexblade can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If he makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, he instead avoids the effect entirely. A helpless , Hexblade does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability.
Spells: At 4th level, the Hexblade can cast a small number of arcane spells, based on Charisma, using the paladin's spells per day table.
Arcane Bond (Su): At 5th level, the Hexblade gains a special arcane bond with either a creature or weapon. Once this choice is made, it can never be changed. The Hexblade can choose to have a familiar, using his Hexblade level as his equivalent wizard level. Alternatively, the Hexblade can form an arcane bond with a weapon. This ability is similar to the paladin’s divine bond ability, except the Hexblade is not limited in what kind of weapon special abilities he can select from.
Aura of Unluck (Su): At 9th level, the Hexblade may spend 1 point from his Arcane Pool as an immediate action and gain a 20% miss chance for a number of rounds equal to ½ his class level + Charisma modifier. At 17th level, Hexblade gains a 50% miss chance.
Free Magic (Ex): Any hexblade ability that is usually activated as a swift or immediate
action may be used as a free action.
It'd need a gimmick to differentiate it from the Magus.
A fighting class with arcane powers that DIDN'T cast spells would be a pretty cool concept.
I could care less about the Magus really if you hadn't guessed from my OP.
Well take a ranger, swap the spell list out and done. Really though every time this comes up folks always want better casting then paladin/ranger.
I think this could be covered by archetypes myself.
Well if you read my edit, later posts, or even my OP fully, you would clearly see that I don't care about the class abilities that Jason seems so drawn to. Hell if he felt he could get away with it I bet fighters would have a D8 hit die and intermediate base attack bonus and give them more class abilities.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with something along an arcane dualist, stripped of all its class abilities except for armored casting and arcane bond, reduce the spells to equivalent to 17th with out 6th level spells, and throw on a full base attack bonus with D10 hit die and you would be fine.
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General consensus is that Full BAB can only be paired with paladin/ranger casting. I personally believe Full BAB can be paired with a bard casting as long as the spell list is limited. This problem is further hampered by the Pathfinder HD/BAB tie-in, because most of the parties are against a Full BAB/d10 HD/6th level spellcasting of any kind.
I suppose I could see a class with full Bab, 3/4 casting, and some minor class abilities in line with bloodline or domain powers. That could be OK to play, I guess. I doubt it would be better in combat than a Magus or Arcane Duelist not having class abilities to augment it combat prowess (other than spells). I may want to make a HD exception, but other than that.
I'd rather see a arcane 1/2 caster with some new flavor, rather than just redoing a ranger's spell list and having what boils down to exactly the same class.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with something along an arcane dualist, stripped of all its class abilities except for armored casting and arcane bond, reduce the spells to equivalent to 17th with out 6th level spells, and throw on a full base attack bonus with D10 hit die and you would be fine.
Now, see, you want full Bab, spells, and the main combat boosting ability of an arcane duelist. Do you see the problem there?
That's like having a barbarian, but get rid of all class features except rage (throw out rage powers too) and replacing the lost features with weapon training and favored enemy. It's a one trick pony that's unplayably good at it's trick.
Full BAB and combat boosting class features won't be a problem depending on the spell list.
It will considering the spells everyone will want. All the effective ones.
It's probably not as fundamentally broken an idea as people suggest, considering that at higher levels it's not your melee ability, or your spellcasting ability, that limit you.
It is your action economy.
The problem with a class like this though is primarily that it completely overshadows the party spellcaster, the party fighter, or both, depending on circumstance. When the party sorcerer becomes obsolete because you're using knock, or fly, or hasting everyone, or throwing the cones of cold, or etc etc, it decreases the fun for that player. When you buff yourself and start destroying monsters the fighter can't touch, the player of that character starts to feel worthless.
Eventually, it becomes to the point where everyone just makes that class because "why not?" What's the limiting factor? What do you get through class abilities that you couldn't probably just emulate through a spell?
It not that it hasn't happened because it's broken,or because it's overpowered -- it just hasn't happened because it's just not a good idea from a party mechanic standpoint to make someone as good at fighting as the party's fighter and as good as the party's wizard.
If you're interested in a game like this, I'd recommend that you talk to your GM about Gestahlt characters from the old Unearthed Arcana book.
Even Jason Bulmahn has said in an interview it could be done, they just wouldn't get much else, but you know what, I am okay with that.
There you go.
I give you the warmage, an archetype/class variant for the Magus.
What you do is increase the BAB to full, the HD to d10, and remove all class abilities except the bonus feat, the ability that lets him get fighter feats and the casting in light/medium/heavy armour part.
Don't like the spell-list? Let's have the spellsinger, an archetype/class variant for the bard.
Again, increase BAB/HD to that of a fighter. Then remove bardic music.
I might even see the monster herder, which is for summoners. Full BAB/HD, but you lose the eidolon.
Those are basically what Jason suggested - an arcanist with full BAB and non-trivial magic but with little else.
And you know what? I wouldn't play them. I'd rather have the original versions. Why? Because I think you lose more than you gain.
Magus: The BAB might seem like much, but you forget that you lose the ability to combine swordery and sorcery and do both in the same round (without quicken spell). That is huge! And you lose your arcane pool, too. That allowed you to get quite close to being a full-blown warrior, at least for a while, and offered more options to boot. There is the option to increase your weapon for a full minute, which offsets the lesser attack bonuses. You don't get the extra attacks, but they're not that great, and you do get extra damage. And you have better access to haste, which gives you an extra attack, too.
Bard: Bardic music is huge! Inspire courage alone will let you get close to the attack bonus you'd have with a full BAB. Sure, you have fewer attacks, but again you lose the weakest attack (the one least likely to hit) and do get a damage bonus to all attacks. And all your friends get the same!
Plus, you lose all the other kinds of bardic music.
It's probably not as fundamentally broken an idea as people suggest, considering that at higher levels it's not your melee ability, or your spellcasting ability, that limit you.
It is your action economy.
The problem with a class like this though is primarily that it completely overshadows the party spellcaster, the party fighter, or both, depending on circumstance. When the party sorcerer becomes obsolete because you're using knock, or fly, or hasting everyone, or throwing the cones of cold, or etc etc, it decreases the fun for that player. When you buff yourself and start destroying monsters the fighter can't touch, the player of that character starts to feel worthless.
Eventually, it becomes to the point where everyone just makes that class because "why not?" What's the limiting factor? What do you get through class abilities that you couldn't probably just emulate through a spell?
It not that it hasn't happened because it's broken,or because it's overpowered -- it just hasn't happened because it's just not a good idea from a party mechanic standpoint to make someone as good at fighting as the party's fighter and as good as the party's wizard.
If you're interested in a game like this, I'd recommend that you talk to your GM about Gestahlt characters from the old Unearthed Arcana book.
With a limited spell list, and likely 3/4 casting, it won't be near as good as the party spellcaster, that's not even an issue.
Without the combat enhancing class abilities, (such as feats or weapon training) it won't be as good as the fighter, or any other warrior class. It may be able to buff itself, via spells, but that, as you said, is limited by action economy.
Such a class wouldn't overshadow the wizard or the fighter anymore than the Arcane Duelist or the Magus. In fact, it would be very similar to both, trading it's class abilities for a few points of Bab and some hp.
@Kae Yoss: I like your archetypes. I think they're balanced and just what the OP wanted. Like you, I wouldn't play them either. Not because they lose more than they gain, but because I think a few Bab and some hp aren't as interesting as class abilities. Other's milage may vary.
It's probably not as fundamentally broken an idea as people suggest, considering that at higher levels it's not your melee ability, or your spellcasting ability, that limit you.
It is your action economy.
The problem with a class like this though is primarily that it completely overshadows the party spellcaster, the party fighter, or both, depending on circumstance. When the party sorcerer becomes obsolete because you're using knock, or fly, or hasting everyone, or throwing the cones of cold, or etc etc, it decreases the fun for that player. When you buff yourself and start destroying monsters the fighter can't touch, the player of that character starts to feel worthless.
Eventually, it becomes to the point where everyone just makes that class because "why not?" What's the limiting factor? What do you get through class abilities that you couldn't probably just emulate through a spell?
It not that it hasn't happened because it's broken,or because it's overpowered -- it just hasn't happened because it's just not a good idea from a party mechanic standpoint to make someone as good at fighting as the party's fighter and as good as the party's wizard.
If you're interested in a game like this, I'd recommend that you talk to your GM about Gestahlt characters from the old Unearthed Arcana book.
Your statements here are nothing but assumptions. Why would it have to get cone of cold?
Even Jason Bulmahn has said in an interview it could be done, they just wouldn't get much else, but you know what, I am okay with that.There you go.
I give you the warmage, an archetype/class variant for the Magus.
What you do is increase the BAB to full, the HD to d10, and remove all class abilities except the bonus feat, the ability that lets him get fighter feats and the casting in light/medium/heavy armour part.
Don't like the spell-list?
I have no inherent problem with the spell list. Dosn't sound so bad to me. Just wish we had something more official.
It's probably not as fundamentally broken an idea as people suggest, considering that at higher levels it's not your melee ability, or your spellcasting ability, that limit you.
It is your action economy.
The problem with a class like this though is primarily that it completely overshadows the party spellcaster, the party fighter, or both, depending on circumstance. When the party sorcerer becomes obsolete because you're using knock, or fly, or hasting everyone, or throwing the cones of cold, or etc etc, it decreases the fun for that player. When you buff yourself and start destroying monsters the fighter can't touch, the player of that character starts to feel worthless.
Eventually, it becomes to the point where everyone just makes that class because "why not?" What's the limiting factor? What do you get through class abilities that you couldn't probably just emulate through a spell?
It not that it hasn't happened because it's broken,or because it's overpowered -- it just hasn't happened because it's just not a good idea from a party mechanic standpoint to make someone as good at fighting as the party's fighter and as good as the party's wizard.
If you're interested in a game like this, I'd recommend that you talk to your GM about Gestahlt characters from the old Unearthed Arcana book.
With a limited spell list, and likely 3/4 casting, it won't be near as good as the party spellcaster, that's not even an issue.
Without the combat enhancing class abilities, (such as feats or weapon training) it won't be as good as the fighter, or any other warrior class. It may be able to buff itself, via spells, but that, as you said, is limited by action economy.
Such a class wouldn't overshadow the wizard or the fighter anymore than the Arcane Duelist or the Magus. In fact, it would be very similar to both, trading it's class abilities for a few points of Bab and some hp.
@Kae Yoss: I like your archetypes. I think they're balanced and just what the OP wanted....
What if we had a spell list that granted buff spells to par with the class combat capabilities of the fighter. Forget all the AoE or def-buff spells really, and just throw in some uses of quicken spells every so often.
When coming up with a new class you have to think of what the heart of the class is. If you want a class that is capable of magic and buffing their own abilities with magic you have the Bard or the Magus.
Now, by heart of the class I am speaking both in terms of game design and flavor. You can't just create a class that combines the study of magic with the study of swords because that's what the Magus does.
One alternative to creating a whole new class is playing with the concept of archetypes. Would it be possible to play an arcane version of a paladin? Perhaps they channel raw magical power through their weapon rather than smiting evil.
I'm still mulling over the details. But I think the class needs:
Charisma-based casting (to seperate from the Magus)
A unique ability that is the "heart" of the class.
A full melee attack bonus and spellcasting up to 4th level.
A unique and limited spell list (focusing on buffs and damaging spells)
Finally, a new class needs a name. Something that conjures and image in one's head when they hear it. I think 3.5 left this idea along the way, creating classes like the Hexblade, and the Duskblade, lifeless and boring names that don't really strike true the way that Paladin, or Fighter cut right to the core of what the character is all about. A class needs to be one word that connects to something from history or mythology or simply cuts to the heart of what that character is all about. Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric, Wizard... these names are iconic and if you want to add to their legacy you have to think very carefully about what to name them. Inquisitor, Oracle, Gunslinger... these are names that conjure faces from film and literature.
Right now I've got the name "Templar" in my brain. It's a name that is related to Paladin and really brings to mind an armored knight so it wouldn't be that hard to re-imagine the name as a warrior who uses some arcane magic in the same way Paladins channel the might of their gods.
There is a class in the up-coming issue of Wayfinder (issue #5 - the PaizoCon issue) that I think many of you will approve of !!! :)
Interesting, would love to see it.
why not just that one prestige class that has full bab and full caster sure its a prestige but its what your talking about essentially while not obseleteing other classes cause with the loss of the few caster levels and bab points from having to take the preq classes its not gonna hurt the mage or figther to much and its still not bad really especially with its cap stone (which i think is melee crit = insta spell if i remmber correctly)
Why not take a fighter, and swap out armor training for a four level spell selection? Or something like witch hexs?
When coming up with a new class you have to think of what the heart of the class is. If you want a class that is capable of magic and buffing their own abilities with magic you have the Bard or the Magus.
Now, by heart of the class I am speaking both in terms of game design and flavor. You can't just create a class that combines the study of magic with the study of swords because that's what the Magus does.
One alternative to creating a whole new class is playing with the concept of archetypes. Would it be possible to play an arcane version of a paladin? Perhaps they channel raw magical power through their weapon rather than smiting evil.
I'm still mulling over the details. But I think the class needs:
Charisma-based casting (to seperate from the Magus)
A unique ability that is the "heart" of the class.
A full melee attack bonus and spellcasting up to 4th level.
A unique and limited spell list (focusing on buffs and damaging spells)Finally, a new class needs a name. Something that conjures and image in one's head when they hear it. I think 3.5 left this idea along the way, creating classes like the Hexblade, and the Duskblade, lifeless and boring names that don't really strike true the way that Paladin, or Fighter cut right to the core of what the character is all about. A class needs to be one word that connects to something from history or mythology or simply cuts to the heart of what that character is all about. Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric, Wizard... these names are iconic and if you want to add to their legacy you have to think very carefully about what to name them. Inquisitor, Oracle, Gunslinger... these are names that conjure faces from film and literature.
Right now I've got the name "Templar" in my brain. It's a name that is related to Paladin and really brings to mind an armored knight so it wouldn't be that hard to re-imagine the name as a warrior who uses some arcane magic in the same way Paladins channel the might of their gods.
Sounds like a good idea. I have several names that would be good, but this would go with different types of casters (better fitting than the Magus). Templar would probably go with a more wizard-like caster. I was thinking Warlock for a more sorcerer bloodline fighter, and Athame for a hex witch's based type but I think this class would probably get casting like a ranger/paladin.
However this doesn't exactly solve my problem. I am looking for a more official class for pathfinder.
In before "With everyone saying it is week or it is powerful, that usually means it is balanced."In before "Duskblades are weak and not broken."Aw man, this last week has been Nostalgia Week on the Paizo boards it seems. :)In before "Duskblades are broken".
In before the Godwin.
It would be very boring mechanically. You'd basically be a fighter without feats -- playing with a tightly restricted number of spells known -- and casting in light armor.
Comparing that to the flavor of the bard, it's just kind of a yawn. I can see why it hasn't been done yet. . .
If I was to do this here's how I would go about it:
Fighter Archetype:
Replace Bravery with Blade trust: Swift action give your weapon a +1 enhancement bonus, +1 for every 4 levels after level 2. May be used for a number of rounds per day equal to your fighter level + a mental stat mod (not sure which).
Replace weapon training 1, 2, 3 ,4: Gain a spell as a spell like ability. This ability may be used 1/day +1 time for every 3 levels after it is gained. The level of the spell you can choose is equal to the level of weapon training replaced +1 or lower.
Replace armor training with the following: Choose either a familiar, bloodline or school specialty. Gain that ability as if you are of the appropriate class of level equal to your fighter level -2.
Replace Armor Mastery with: Spell resistance = fighter level +11.
Replace weapon mastery with: Spell reflection -- if you make the save throw against a spell or spell like ability you may spend an immediate action to turn the spell on the caster as per spell turning you may use this once per spell caster.
why not just that one prestige class that has full bab and full caster sure its a prestige but its what your talking about essentially while not obseleteing other classes cause with the loss of the few caster levels and bab points from having to take the preq classes its not gonna hurt the mage or figther to much and its still not bad really especially with its cap stone (which i think is melee crit = insta spell if i remmber correctly)
You're talking about the Eldritch Knight. if you get the right combination of wizard, fighter and EK levels, you can get 9th-level magic (at caster level 17 before traits or feats that increase it) AND BAB 16 (giving you the maximum number of attacks) at level 20.
What you do is get 5 wizard levels, followed by one fighter level, followed by all 10 EK levels, after which you raise wizard to 8 and fighter to 2.
It's not quite the same as full BAB and full spellcasting, but the best combination you can get with official PF stuff.
However, you don't get anything that lets you use martial and magic abilites at once (the way the magus gets), and your armoured casting is sub-optimal (since the only ways to wear actual armour is to waste your swift actions or else cast everything still at +1 caster level or with ruinous metamagic rod costs).
I'll take the magus any day of the week. The "action economy" people mention up-thread is extremely important for such crossbreed character concepts.
why not just that one prestige class that has full bab and full caster sure its a prestige but its what your talking about essentially while not obseleteing other classes cause with the loss of the few caster levels and bab points from having to take the preq classes its not gonna hurt the mage or figther to much and its still not bad really especially with its cap stone (which i think is melee crit = insta spell if i remmber correctly)
You're talking about the Eldritch Knight. if you get the right combination of wizard, fighter and EK levels, you can get 9th-level magic (at caster level 17 before traits or feats that increase it) AND BAB 16 (giving you the maximum number of attacks) at level 20.
What you do is get 5 wizard levels, followed by one fighter level, followed by all 10 EK levels, after which you raise wizard to 8 and fighter to 2.
It's not quite the same as full BAB and full spellcasting, but the best combination you can get with official PF stuff.
However, you don't get anything that lets you use martial and magic abilites at once (the way the magus gets), and your armoured casting is sub-optimal (since the only ways to wear actual armour is to waste your swift actions or else cast everything still at +1 caster level or with ruinous metamagic rod costs).
I'll take the magus any day of the week. The "action economy" people mention up-thread is extremely important for such crossbreed character concepts.
This would grant a far greater spell casting ability than what I am looking for, plus casting in armor at the cost of a swift action all the time and having to forgo arcane strike completely to make the capstone actually usable is very vexing and unappealing.
P.S. Yes the action economy is a big problem I see with PF in general. I just don't like this style of game design as I don't think Jason knows just how hindering this is, such as having to use cleave as a standard action really is.
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There is a class in the up-coming issue of Wayfinder (issue #5 - the PaizoCon issue) that I think many of you will approve of !!! :)Interesting, would love to see it.
The issue comes out next month, shortly after PaizoCon (or, you can get a print copy if you go to PaizoCon).
I'm actually REALLY happy with the class and am very anxious to hear what folks think.
In before lock.In before the Godwin.In before "With everyone saying it is week or it is powerful, that usually means it is balanced."In before "Duskblades are weak and not broken."Aw man, this last week has been Nostalgia Week on the Paizo boards it seems. :)In before "Duskblades are broken".
In before thread restart.
There is a class in the up-coming issue of Wayfinder (issue #5 - the PaizoCon issue) that I think many of you will approve of !!! :)Interesting, would love to see it.The issue comes out next month, shortly after PaizoCon (or, you can get a print copy if you go to PaizoCon).
I'm actually REALLY happy with the class and am very anxious to hear what folks think.
Well I won't be able to make it, where can I download it from?
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In before thread restart.In before lock.In before the Godwin.In before "With everyone saying it is week or it is powerful, that usually means it is balanced."In before "Duskblades are weak and not broken."Aw man, this last week has been Nostalgia Week on the Paizo boards it seems. :)In before "Duskblades are broken".
In before forum reboot.
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In before forum reboot.In before thread restart.In before lock.In before the Godwin.In before "With everyone saying it is week or it is powerful, that usually means it is balanced."In before "Duskblades are weak and not broken."Aw man, this last week has been Nostalgia Week on the Paizo boards it seems. :)In before "Duskblades are broken".
In before in before.
Have you checked out Tenjon's Iron Mage class?
Have you checked out Tenjon's Iron Mage class?
Sorry, but you are the 4th to 6th person who has brought up a ranger/paladin style casting class, AND not even one that is even semi-official. PLEASE read the OP at least.