RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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The Pathfinder SRD says:
At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
I have always assumed that the Ranger did not need prerequisites when picking feats to fill the bonus feats lots, but if a Ranger used a slot that was not a Combat Style bonus feat slot, the character would need to meet the prerequisites as any other character would. Example: If a Ranger picked Archery Combat Style, and picked up Precise Shot as a 3rd level feat, the character would need the prereq: PBS, but if the character used the 2nd level Ranger Combat Style Bonus Feat slot, the character would not need PBS.
I have a player who challenges this interpretation. The player says that the last line should be construed that Rangers of 2nd level or higher NEVER need prereqs when picking feats from their combat style list.
Which reading of the class feature is correct? It would seem that if his interpretation was correct, you could take 2 levels of Ranger and have feats without prereqs for the rest of the character development.
I've always interpreted it as agreeing with your player. Yes, you could splash 2 levels of Ranger, and take the like 4 feats you get at 2nd level without prereqs. Remember, the better feats in the style are not added until later ranger levels.
I think your read is the right one.
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Which reading of the class feature is correct? It would seem that if his interpretation was correct, you could take 2 levels of Ranger and have feats without prereqs for the rest of the character development.
I understand your interpretation to be correct. The class ability includes, "If the ranger selects archery, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: (list)." There is a parallel statement regarding TWF. He can bypass the prerequisites only when gaining a combat style feat at the indicated levels.
To get to your player's interpretation requires taking the sentence he's pointing to out of the context of the rest of the text regarding class ability.
Which reading of the class feature is correct? It would seem that if his interpretation was correct, you could take 2 levels of Ranger and have feats without prereqs for the rest of the character development.I understand your interpretation to be correct. The class ability includes, "If the ranger selects archery, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: (list)." There is a parallel statement regarding TWF. He can bypass the prerequisites only when gaining a combat style feat at the indicated levels.
To get to your player's interpretation requires taking the sentence he's pointing to out of the context of the rest of the text regarding class ability.
Agreed. You only get the no-prereq feats when the table gives them to you. However, you can use them to qualify for other feats normally. I think an earlier edition (3.0?) let you ignore the prereqs for whenever you got a feat, but PF certainly makes it clear that's not the case.
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Yep. You only ignore the feat prerequisites when you're selecting those specific feats as your ranger combat style bonus feats. Feats you gain from other classes like fighter, or through leveling, require you to have the prerequisites.
The line: "The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level."
basically makes the rest of the entry about that line. So the feats refer to those combat style bonus feats you gain at those levels. Ignoring the prerequisites applies to the combat style bonus feats you gain at that level. Ect..
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Looking at what others have written, I can see how the core rulebook allows either interpretation.
I was going off this part of the APG under the new combat styles:
The following new combat styles may be chosen when a ranger chooses a Combat Style: crossbow, mounted combat, natural weapon, Two-handed weapon, or weapon and shield style. The Ranger can choose feats from his selected combat style even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
(emphasis mine)
No mention of bonus feats at all there.
Honestly, it's not a big balance issue either way.
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Looking at what others have written, I can see how the core rulebook allows either interpretation.
I was going off this part of the APG under the new combat styles:
The following new combat styles may be chosen when a ranger chooses a Combat Style: crossbow, mounted combat, natural weapon, Two-handed weapon, or weapon and shield style. The Ranger can choose feats from his selected combat style even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.(emphasis mine)
No mention of bonus feats at all there.
Honestly, it's not a big balance issue either way.
The APG is modifying the bonus feat section of the original. Also keep in mind you lose combat style bonus feats when wearing armor that's too heavy, which is a balancing issue not present in a normal feat slot. Those factors mean it's pretty clear that the prereq elimination only occurs for bonus feat slots. To do otherwise allows a ranger to skirt around restrictions.
The Core is clear on this, though:
"He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites."
Even your quote from the APG talks about choosing feats, though this applies to the initial combat style entry, which I quoted. So, yes "The Ranger can choose feats from his selected combat style even if he does not have the normal prerequisites." However, he can only do so when choosing a bonus feat.
There is no other reading that makes sense in the totality of the rules.
I think that you are correct and your player is wrong.