Just out of curiosity, I'm looking for the best non-spellcasting class to use for a build to destroy casters. I'm hoping for something that is equally defensible as it is offensive. Any ideas?
Thanks guys!
- S.N. Rivers
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Probably a Zen Archer Monk, possibly with a side of grappling. If the spell caster lacks protection from archery then kill it with a flurry of arrows. If archery fails then run close and grapple. Monks have good saves, which are especially important when facing hostile casters.
If the spell caster is forewarned and has time to prepare then fogetaboutit. Unless we're talking very low levels, or an incompetent caster, the non-spellcaster has little or no chance.
Probably a Zen Archer Monk, possibly with a side of grappling. If the spell caster lacks protection from archery then kill it with a flurry of arrows. If archery fails then run close and grapple. Monks have good saves, which are especially important when facing hostile casters.
If the spell caster is forewarned and has time to prepare then fogetaboutit. Unless we're talking very low levels, or an incompetent caster, the non-spellcaster has little or no chance.
Theoretically, couldn't an archer just make a readied action on his turn to hold off his attack until the caster's turn? Then launch his readied and prepared attack while the caster is casting? Then the caster would have to make a concentration check, DC 10 + Damage + Spell level.
Using this strategy couldn't an archer just consistently time and ready his shots to time up with the caster as said caster tries to cast? You could force the caster to always risk a spell by making it fizzle if he or she failed the concentration check. Because a readied action only requires that you give up an action of equal description as the action you're preparing.
So just ready a standard action to fire and attack and prepare it for the time that your foe starts casting. Outsmart the caster. I've always felt that the way to overcoming casters lied in outwitting them. Not out brawning or out ranging them.
|
Monk is usually the best option for non-magic anti-caster, although I like Tetori slightly more for this than Zen Archer.
However, a Superstitious Spell-sundering barbarian with elemental blood for flight is just as good.
But really, if the caster is prepared there is almost no chance. Hell, if the caster isn't flat-footed there is almost no chance if they know Emergency Force Sphere.
|
|
Probably a Zen Archer Monk, possibly with a side of grappling. If the spell caster lacks protection from archery then kill it with a flurry of arrows. If archery fails then run close and grapple. Monks have good saves, which are especially important when facing hostile casters.
If the spell caster is forewarned and has time to prepare then fogetaboutit. Unless we're talking very low levels, or an incompetent caster, the non-spellcaster has little or no chance.
Theoretically, couldn't an archer just make a readied action on his turn to hold off his attack until the caster's turn? Then launch his readied and prepared attack while the caster is casting? Then the caster would have to make a concentration check, DC 10 + Damage + Spell level.
Using this strategy couldn't an archer just consistently time and ready his shots to time up with the caster as said caster tries to cast? You could force the caster to always risk a spell by making it fizzle if he or she failed the concentration check. Because a readied action only requires that you give up an action of equal description as the action you're preparing.
So just ready a standard action to fire and attack and prepare it for the time that your foe starts casting. Outsmart the caster. I've always felt that the way to overcoming casters lied in outwitting them. Not out brawning or out ranging them.
This only works if the caster doesn't use quickened spell to cast twice. If the first spell is lost to an arrow, you can bet the second is going to be an anti-arrow spell. Besides, a single arrow's damage is pretty small, and concentration checks become trivial at higher level.
|
I'm liking the Primalist Spell-eater Arcane Bloodrager who picks up the superstitious, witch hunter, spell sundering, and eater of Magic For your level 12 and 16 powers. Makes a good Front line character as well...fights well against all types of Foes...but those with magic get eaten. NOM NOM NOM
Here is a sample build:
Half-Orc Primalist Spell-eater Bloodrager
Alternate Racial Traits: Sacred Tattoo and Shaman's Apprentice
20 point buy: Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 15, Int: 8, Wis: 12, Cha: 13
Trait 1: Fate's Favored- Paired with Sacred Tattoo you get +2 Luck bonus on all 3 saves...this is better than taking 3 feats.
Trait 2: Dangerously Curious (cause UMD is a Nice skill to Have...scrolls are cheap)
Trait 3: Optimistic Gambler (this is NOT PFS legal cause it is a campaign trait from second darkness. but if you play in a home game where they don't care about where the trait comes from and allows 3 traits and 1 draw back This is the trait to pick up.) This trait comes from the second darkness campaign and is THE BEST trait for a Bloodrager or Barbarian that is not rage cycling like the build below. Gives 1-4 extra rage rounds after you choose to end your rage every time. Basically its better than taking Extra rage feat 2+ times.
Build By Level:
1 HD: Feats- Endurance(from Shaman's Apprentice Trait) and Die Hard, fast movement, bloodrage, Disruptive Bloodrage (Su)
2 HD: Blood of Life(Su) Notice the SU in that ability. This fast healing IS magical and not a EX ability like a majority of Fast Healing
3 HD: Feat-Fast Healer, Blood sanctuary
(because of Blood of Life (Su) your fast healing IS magical...makes Fast Healer actually work for you to increase your amount of Fast healing by 1+ Half CON modifier= 3 currently)
4 HD: Eschew materials, Blood casting, Arcane Bloodrage (Sp)
5 HD: Feat-Raging Vitality, Spell Eating (Su)
(another source of Magical healing in spell eating and Raging Vitality makes your CON effectively 2 points higher and you don't end rage while unconscious so you can fast heal while down to stabilize and get back up)
6 HD: Bloodline Feat- Power Attack
7 HD: Feat- Arcane Strike, Fast Healing/ Increase
8 HD: Greater Arcane Bloodrage (Sp)
(Doesn't every melee frontliner want Displacement to add layered defense to your AC...amazing ability to have as a free action)
9 HD: Feat- Cleave (I hate it but it will make Spell Sunder more effective) , Bloodline Feat- Iron Will
10 HD: Fast Healing/ Increase
11 HD: Feat-Bloodied Arcane Strike, Greater bloodrage (Need to take bloodied Arcane strike to free up your swift actions for Raging Brutality and Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier.)
12 HD: Bloodline Feat- Disruptive, Primal Choices: Superstitious & Witch Hunter
(you're giving up Caster's Scourge (Ex) for 2 rage powers. You should already be a caster's worst nightmare with Disruptive Bloodrage (Su), Disruptive feat, and spellbreaker feat. Now add in more damage you're doing to casters and increasing your saves seems more important to me)
13 HD: Feat- Raging Brutality, Fast Healing/ Increase
14 HD: Indomitable will
15 HD: Feat- Eldritch Heritage- Orc ,Bloodline Feat- Spellbreaker
16 HD: Fast Healing/ Increase, Trade out True Arcane Bloodrage (Sp) for Eater of Magic and Spell Sunder
17 HD: Tireless Bloodrage (Su), Feat- Improved Eldritch Heritage (Strength of the Beast (Ex) from Orc bloodline...+4 Str now and +2 more at level 19....this is a +6 str INHERENT boost. Means it STACKS with whatever Enhancement bonuses you may have acquired)
18 HD: Bloodline Feat- Combat Reflexes or Improved Initiative
19 HD: Fast Healing/ Increase, Feat- Cleaving Finish (Combat)
20 HD: Mighty Bloodrage (Su), Caster's Bane
The gear I recommend:
Headband of Cha +2 or GREATER (You don't need to +1 Cha if you go this route to cast your highest level spells)
Jingasa of the Fourtant soldier- This gets you +2 luck AC and 1/day critical negation for 5k...this really is a bargain Item.
Spell Storing and Furious Adamantine Weapon (preferably reach)
Spell Storing Armor (W/armor spikes if you took a reach weapon)
Spell Storing allows you to cast more spells a day by loading them in your down time. They also are a way to free up action economy and using Vampiric touch or a debilitating Touch attack can make you even better front line tank.
Bullet shield, cloak of winds, fickle winds, obscuring mist (or other spells that block vision), protection from arrows, stoneskin, vanish, wind wall, etc. can all either shut down or make things very difficult for archers; some of them also have extended durations (which means they can be active before the archer gets a chance to ready an action to shoot). Even something as simple as the target taking cover or dropping prone makes ranged attacks harder. And this assumes that the caster is unarmored/lightly armored; in some cases, the caster is also a tank (see "CODzilla").
Archery is not going to be effective against all casters.
Rogue. Sneak up on the spellcaster while they're asleep (high stealth checks and all), neatly dispose of them.
Anyone with enough Diplomacy skill to convince the locals to get rid of them for you would work too.
If you have to fight them, archers are probably better than non-archers (attack at range, take them out before they see you) -- a ranger's combination of stealth and archery might be very handy here.
That said, I think there are big differences between spellcasters at various levels -- what works against a level 1-5 spellcaster may have trouble around a level 6-10 one, and fail utterly against one of levels 11+ (far less 15-20).
Also, different types of spellcasters -- divine spellcasters trusted by the community they live in are a very different kettle of fish than priests of socially despised deities, or arcane casters without diplomatic skills. There are several other varieties as well. Know your enemy first and foremost.
I've seen Vanish used by martials - like a Paladin with Unsanctioned Knowledge - to get the drop on an unwary caster. It's bad enough if it's done spontaneously, where battle begins and the character in question spots the spellcaster and quickly casts Vanish, followed by safely moving up beside them (and hoping they're not wise to it); but it's downright brutal if Vanish was pre-cast, letting them glide right up to an unwary spellcaster and creatively ready an attack to compliment their imminent AoO.