Hello Paizoites. I thought I'd bring up an interesting challenge to the members of the forum. Before I left my old rp group we switched from 4th edition to Pathfinder and though I haven't been apart of the group for awhile I still try and keep up with what's going on with the group. A friend of mine informed me that the DM put a rule in place that if you wanted to play a Samurai (when they were first up for play testing) you couldn't have a Samurai with asian ties since, in his homebrew campaign world, their were no cultures or countries with asian sensibilities or influences. Now, the easy thing is to just not play a Samurai or argue with the DM that you can't have a Samurai without asian flavour. Hell, the names of their weapons are japanese. Still, I thought that it would be interesting to see what alternate ideas we could come up with. Who created the order? Which race is it most prominently part of? Why do they exist at all? I'll post one of my ideas and then we'll see what everyone else can come up with :)
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Long ago a half-orc orphan was left in the care of a monastery and its monks. Here they taught the young half-breed to read, write, speak, and fight. He was taught that one must balance both their emotions and physical strength and keep harmony within oneself to be a better warrior. Though it took time he was able to control his natural bloodlust and when he was ready he went out into the world to spread the teachings the monks had taught him and experience life.
During his travels he was shown the depravity and cruelty of the other races. While the monks loved him and paid no heed to his parentage, people in the streets spit at him and hurled slurs as he walked. As he tried to understand why this was he quickly found himself in the need of coin. Thinking his monk status would gain him some hospitality and kindness, his lineage proved to be a hinderance. So, with his skill and natural warrior abilities he took up with a mercenary group. Together they fought many beasts and villains and he found a sort of family, though he never felt as though he truly belonged. This is when he also met others of his kind and full blooded orcs, usually on the other side of the battlefield.
Eventually he tired of the fighting and set off traveling once again. During this time orc warband encroachments became even more common and the people grew more and more intolerant. It soon seemed as though there was nowhere he could find peace. This loneliness led him to form a haven for his kind, a small village where he and other half-orcs could be free from persecution.
Their was peace in the village for a time but eventually the orc encroachment became an invasion. One day a nearby settlement set upon the village as an angry mob threatening to kill the half-breeds. The monk begged and pleaded with the people to stop but they were intent on the village's destruction. Just as they were about to burn the village an attack came from the woods. An orc warband descended upon them, attacking human and half-orc alike. Due to the ferocity of the half-orcs and the monks training they were able to push the orcs back, and in the process saving the lives of many humans. After this the half-orc monk and his people pledged to serve the rulers of the human lands, to help better show their commitment to peace and partnership. He and the others were gifted the blades of their masters to better cement the relationship between lord and guardian. Thus, the first Samurai were born and half-orcs became a more noble and trusted race.
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So there we go. A little sloppy but I thought it was an interesting idea. What do you guys have?
Hello Paizoites. I thought I'd bring up an interesting challenge to the members of the forum. Before I left my old rp group we switched from 4th edition to Pathfinder and though I haven't been apart of the group for awhile I still try and keep up with what's going on with the group. A friend of mine informed me that the DM put a rule in place that if you wanted to play a Samurai (when they were first up for play testing) you couldn't have a Samurai with asian ties since, in his homebrew campaign world, their were no cultures or countries with asian sensibilities or influences. Now, the easy thing is to just not play a Samurai or argue with the DM that you can't have a Samurai without asian flavour. Hell, the names of their weapons are japanese. Still, I thought that it would be interesting to see what alternate ideas we could come up with. Who created the order? Which race is it most prominently part of? Why do they exist at all? I'll post one of my ideas and then we'll see what everyone else can come up with :)
Short and sweet... Dad (or Mom) was from a far off land / another material plane / somewhere else. He / she / they trained me in their exotic style of combat. Particularly apt if Dad / Mom / whoever was an adventurer. If they fit in well a connection to the far off land can always be created.
Works for an individual character to be inserted in any event.
Hello Paizoites. I thought I'd bring up an interesting challenge to the members of the forum. Before I left my old rp group we switched from 4th edition to Pathfinder and though I haven't been apart of the group for awhile I still try and keep up with what's going on with the group. A friend of mine informed me that the DM put a rule in place that if you wanted to play a Samurai (when they were first up for play testing) you couldn't have a Samurai with asian ties since, in his homebrew campaign world, their were no cultures or countries with asian sensibilities or influences. Now, the easy thing is to just not play a Samurai or argue with the DM that you can't have a Samurai without asian flavour. Hell, the names of their weapons are japanese.
Not sure if the OP is referring to our game, but I did mention to our gaming group that I do not believe that the "Japanese" classes of Ninja and Samurai had to be from Japan. My justification for this is that I am not running a historical game, but a fantasy game in a fantasy world and I didn't want players to feel limited according to race/background should they want to play the class. Furthermore, it breaks the fantasy feel of the game to all of the sudden introduce actual nations into a setting that has little if any relation to Earth.
Anyone remember how hilarious the original D&D description of the Rakshasa sounded when the manual referenced India? It breaks the verisimilitude of many game settings. Hence I do not encourage players to have their Samurai herald from Japan. If they want a place that approximates feudal Japan, I am happy to accommodate, but it will not be historically accurate. As for the names of items being Japanese, that means very little. In the playtest it talks about using the same stats as a bastard sword and a shortsword, we use these descriptions during our game anyway.
Others may prefer to reference actual history in their games. Good on them, but it isn't what we are doing.
Is that you Travis?
I would lean toward an elven variant of the cavalier, lighter, faster.
Elven curved blade is very similar to katana, katana could be the elven word for this kind of sword.
mounted archer version of cavalier? i like it for elves inventing it.
I think the [romanticized] samurai lifestyle lends itself well to dwarves. Perfectionists, honor and duty bound, brave, tenacious, and fierce warriors, known for their love of drink and music. A dwarf's sword having been handed down through his family for generations is not a big step over from having a family hammer, or axe, or shield.
And the clans. That meshes well.
Elves... eh... not so much. Yeah, they perfect their work... over the course of centuries. They lack the intense focus of [fictional] samurai, who set about their every waking moment to become master of their craft.
While half-orcs raised by monks are an awesome way to introduce a clan of orc/humans with a common goal that would turn into a clan of samurai, dwarves seem like they could have had samurai all along.
Sure, you miss out on the horses and archery, but the Way of the Warrior is still present.
OK, not what you're looking for, but my Kaidan setting, and soon to be released Curse of the Golden Spear mini-arc is not Japan, rather an archipelago of islands 'somewhere' in the ocean of any particular world.
Kaidan is a demi-planar bubble that co-exists with the prime material plane. Its possible that it moves from prime material to prime material appearing and disappearing from the respective oceans of various worlds. This way Kaidan could appear in your world, even if it didn't exist there before.
Kaidan, though not Japan, is very much an authentic Japan-inspired place with an Empire, Shogunate, Samurai clans, and the rest of society from commoners to Yakuza. From katana to rice cakes, all things Japanese exist in Kaidan.
Using this, your suspension of disbelief is maintained, without a reflection to an actual Earth-like Japan - called Kaidan. Which means 'samurai' and 'ninja' keeping those names can exist in your world and not be confused with an actual Japan.
Otherwise, how hard is it to create island dwelling human nation with the same focus as samurai and ninja should be. It doesn't even have to be 'oriental'. They could just as easily be an offshoot of a Celtic-like people who have clans, social castes, clan warriors, specialized weapons and a belief system that contrasts with other fantasy 'European' flavor.
I agree that Dwarves fit in some ways, better than most of the base non-human races of Pathfinder. Still I'm more of an advocate of a human culture with exotic beliefs and focused warrior mentality.
The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks has the Ceura country and the sa'ceurai warriors, which are basically feudal Japan and samurai respectively, but some comments through the story reveal that they do NOT look oriental. Infact they are white skinned redheads.
Not sure if the OP is referring to our game, but I did mention to our gaming group that I do not believe that the "Japanese" classes of Ninja and Samurai had to be from Japan. My justification for this is that I am not running a historical game, but a fantasy game in a fantasy world and I didn't want players to feel limited according to race/background should they want to play the class. Furthermore, it breaks the fantasy feel of the game to all of the sudden introduce actual nations into a setting that has little if any relation to Earth.Anyone remember how hilarious the original D&D description of the Rakshasa sounded when the manual referenced India? It breaks the verisimilitude of many game settings. Hence I do not encourage players to have their Samurai herald from Japan. If they want a place that approximates feudal Japan, I am happy to accommodate, but it will not be historically accurate. As for the names of items being Japanese, that means very little. In the playtest it talks about using the same stats as a bastard sword and a shortsword, we use these descriptions during our game anyway.
Others may prefer to reference actual history in their games. Good on them, but it isn't what we are doing.
Is that you...
lol yes, it is me. Sorry I haven't posted in a bit to respond. I figured it would e-mail me when this was posted to but I think I turned that setting off. Anyway, I think I got confused with what Clay said because when he originally told me about your feelings toward Samurai in game I thought you were focusing more on having the players coming up with interesting back stories and things, not just making sure they weren't Japanese. Still, it made for some interesting ideas on my part and that's why I started this thread. Hope your game is going well :)
I think the [romanticized] samurai lifestyle lends itself well to dwarves. Perfectionists, honor and duty bound, brave, tenacious, and fierce warriors, known for their love of drink and music. A dwarf's sword having been handed down through his family for generations is not a big step over from having a family hammer, or axe, or shield.
And the clans. That meshes well.
Elves... eh... not so much. Yeah, they perfect their work... over the course of centuries. They lack the intense focus of [fictional] samurai, who set about their every waking moment to become master of their craft.
While half-orcs raised by monks are an awesome way to introduce a clan of orc/humans with a common goal that would turn into a clan of samurai, dwarves seem like they could have had samurai all along.
Sure, you miss out on the horses and archery, but the Way of the Warrior is still present.
Foghammer, I completely agree with you here. I immediately thought of dwarves when I was conjuring up alternate samurai ideas but the half-orc idea just got more fleshed out in my mind. But as you said, with dwarves it just feels like they could have had samurai all along.
lol yes, it is me. Sorry I haven't posted in a bit to respond. I figured it would e-mail me when this was posted to but I think I turned that setting off. Anyway, I think I got confused with what Clay said because when he originally told me about your feelings toward Samurai in game I thought you were focusing more on having the players coming up with interesting back stories and things, not just making sure they weren't Japanese. Still, it made for some interesting ideas on my part and that's why I started this thread. Hope your game is going well :)
Thanks Travis! Game is going well. How is yours? Are you still doing mostly 4e or have you moved over to Pathfinder? Happy gaming!
All the best,
Pappy
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he Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks has the Ceura country and the sa'ceurai warriors, which are basically feudal Japan and samurai respectively, but some comments through the story reveal that they do NOT look oriental. Infact they are white skinned redheads.
awesome book, and a bit of the monguls were thrown in thier culture too
As for the names of items being Japanese, that means very little.
Exactly. The names of most items(or most anything) is in English. That doesn't mean everyone's campaign world has an England.